Hawken Rifles, What's All The Hoopla?!

[springfield art]

I would also submit that the golden age highly embellished long rifles were no more common in historical times than a real Hawken. Both were well beyond the means of the average man of their times. Frankly, we romanticize the exceptional not the common. We don’t fantasize about plain Jane guns, Chevrolet Chevettes, or ugly women. We fantasize about Golden age long rifles/Hawkens, Corvettes, & super models.

You have a point. I note that almost every flint gun has to have a "fancy striped stock" nowadays, whereas plain Janes were more common. I think one thing cool about Military muskets is that the wood was just functional, there was no desire for 'fancy' at all.

 

[William Sublette]

There's something magnetic about plain ol' serious business, function over form, quality.

But, a little bling never hurt nothing.

 

[RonRC]

Just for fun: A few Gemmer and several Hawken rifles at the Cody Museum in Wyoming. Match the number on the upper right corner of the cards to the numbers below each rifle.

 

[Dispatch]

Speaking personally, I believe there is an allure to the “Hawken” style rifle. Obviously its actual historical role in the fur trade era is overstated, no one disputes this. Obviously it benefited from the Bicentennial & surrounding Hollywood films featuring it. Obviously it has benefited from larger production outfits producing rifles on a larger scale that attempted to capture the spirit of the originals (though certainly not accurate reproductions, I don’t believe they were ever meant to be). These production “Hawkens” (or maybe “Hawken” with a lower case H is more appropriate?) allowed many without great financial means or technical gun building skill to enter the alluring world of the Rendezvous & personally, I’m glad those people were able to enter the sport (I myself am one of these folks). So while I totally understand folks being burned out on all things Hawken or even hawken, that doesn’t take away from the romanticism (real or imagined) that comes from using a Hawken or even (GASP!) a hawken. Personally I like & actually collect T/C side lock rifles, I know the utter disdain some have for them, & I even share some of it. However, I like them because I grew up in a world where entry level traditional Muzzleloaders were all lower quality & imported (usually) hawken rifles. However, T/C’s were made in the USA, had quality barrels, good (if not PC) sights which are important to hunters, & good strong percussion locks (their flintlocks do not seem to be as highly regarded though towards their end they seem to have been good). Anyways, I don’t know how this post ended up being so long. Thanks if you managed to stick with it to the end.
http://www.namlhunt.com/ml-renegade-rescue.html

I also understand they converted then sold to the civilian market a lot of the military rifle muskets being they were so great in number and so readily available like with all the conversion pistols they employed after the civil war...

 

[Ozark Mtn Muzzleloader]

I also understand they converted then sold to the civilian market a lot of the military rifle muskets being they were so great in number and so readily available like with all the conversion pistols they employed after the civil war... View attachment 162357

The Civil War Springfields that were in good condition were converted into TD rifles. However lots that were rougher were sold to dealers. Lots were converted to smooth bore shotgun type arms. I’m currently working on bringing one back to life.

 

[Polecat_Tom]

Montana, please keep us posted on your restoration project.

 

[Ozark Mtn Muzzleloader]

Montana, please keep us posted on your restoration project.

I will, but with grouse & Turkey season open then followed by big game seasons, it’ll be a while before I’m back at the bench. Sigh, I have too many project guns.

 

[Rich Wormington]

I have a restoration in the works on one too, a CW Springfleld converted to a shotgun, don't know when I will ever get it done, I also have too many projects. It should be very good shape and shootable when it is finished.

 

[Ozark Mtn Muzzleloader]

I have a restoration in the works on one too, a CW Springfleld converted to a shotgun, don't know when I will ever get it done, I also have too many projects. It should be very good shape and shootable when it is finished.

Mine is not really a “restoration”, I’m only repairing damage & replacing missing parts. All that’s left is to minimize the pitting in the bore & easy out the old nipple.

 

[SciAggie]

I feel compelled to comment in this thread. I'd hate to be the only forum member not to say something. I have nothing to add really - I have a custom Hawken that I had made just because they are so cool. It's a great rifle (.54) and shoots well. I find thought that I prefer my English sporting rifle so the Hawken is mostly a safe queen.

 

[SlidePicker]

Shortly after I posted I saw an ad on TOW for a used .54 caliber Leman style rifle by Green River Rifle Works. That's one of the ones I drooled over back in the '70s. I'm not in the market at the moment, though.

 

[burlesontom]

This was a good thread and good read. I like the "Hawken"Style" rifles myself. I like how strong and rugged they appear to be. I like the thick wrist and strong barrel. I like that they don't have a dainty feel to them. A Tennesee or Kentucky rifle feels good in the hands with the long barrel and slim stock. I just like the "Military Grade" feel the half stock rifles have.

Like others I really wish that the half stock TC Hawkens and TC knock offs weren't called "Hawken's". I wish they could have came up with other names. The Great Plains Rifle was a good name. So was Trade Rifle a good name. TC also came up with other names that weren't too bad.

The half stock rifles made by Invest Arms and Traditions along with the TC brand of rifles are closer to Leman rifles than the guns turned out by Jake and Sam. None the less they are well made guns that let you taste what loading and shooting a half stock original rifle would be like.

I was lucky enough to handle an old original half stock rifle. Frankly if the new made Hawken Style of rifles weighed as much as that old gun did I doubt many of them would have ever sold or been carried in the field. That old gun had to of weighed at least 13 pounds. If I remember right it had a barrel that was one and a quarter inches across the flats and looked to be a 50 caliber of maybe a 53. The barrel was toast and the lock was broke. There was no name on it I could read. That was 2 and half decades ago so the details are a little fuzzy.

I have wanted one of these rifles for quite a while. Not a half stock but still along the lines of guns built after the end of the fur trade.. A TVM Leman style rifle. I am interested in the period after the fur trade and the opening of the west and the gold rush era. I am sure a lot of guns of this style and copies based on the highly successful Hawken rifles went west with the pioneers. If they could build on of these and have it ready to ship in under 6 months I would sign up for one. I keep hoping to see a used one for sale but never have.

https://www.tvmnatchez.com/leman

 

[SlidePicker]

This was a good thread and good read. I like the "Hawken"Style" rifles myself. I like how strong and rugged they appear to be. I like the thick wrist and strong barrel. I like that they don't have a dainty feel to them. A Tennesee or Kentucky rifle feels good in the hands with the long barrel and slim stock. I just like the "Military Grade" feel the half stock rifles have.

Like others I really wish that the half stock TC Hawkens and TC knock offs weren't called "Hawken's". I wish they could have came up with other names. The Great Plains Rifle was a good name. So was Trade Rifle a good name. TC also came up with other names that weren't too bad.

The half stock rifles made by Invest Arms and Traditions along with the TC brand of rifles are closer to Leman rifles than the guns turned out by Jake and Sam. None the less they are well made guns that let you taste what loading and shooting a half stock original rifle would be like.

I was lucky enough to handle an old original half stock rifle. Frankly if the new made Hawken Style of rifles weighed as much as that old gun did I doubt many of them would have ever sold or been carried in the field. That old gun had to of weighed at least 13 pounds. If I remember right it had a barrel that was one and a quarter inches across the flats and looked to be a 50 caliber of maybe a 53. The barrel was toast and the lock was broke. There was no name on it I could read. That was 2 and half decades ago so the details are a little fuzzy.

I have wanted one of these rifles for quite a while. Not a half stock but still along the lines of guns built after the end of the fur trade.. A TVM Leman style rifle. I am interested in the period after the fur trade and the opening of the west and the gold rush era. I am sure a lot of guns of this style and copies based on the highly successful Hawken rifles went west with the pioneers. If they could build on of these and have it ready to ship in under 6 months I would sign up for one. I keep hoping to see a used one for sale but never have.

https://www.tvmnatchez.com/leman

Go really quick over to TVM's site. Last week they were advertising a used .54 caliber Leman replica by Green River Rifle Works. Those were really nice rifles, back in the mid '70s.

 

[SlidePicker]

Go really quick over to TVM's site. Last week they were advertising a used .54 caliber Leman replica by Green River Rifle Works. Those were really nice rifles, back in the mid '70s.

Oops, sorry, Tom. I meant to type TOW, Track Of the Wolf.

 

[burlesontom]

Go really quick over to TVM's site. Last week they were advertising a used .54 caliber Leman replica by Green River Rifle Works. Those were really nice rifles, back in the mid '70s.

I just came from there (TOW) because you already posted that info so I went and looked for the gun. I didn't find it so it may have already sold. If you can post a link I would appreciate it. I remember when Mountain State Muzzle loading used to carry those. IIRC they were around $600 back then. I still have at least one of the Mountain State catalogs in my attic. I hate they are gone. I really liked those people.

 

[SlidePicker]

Here it is. Says "Sale Pending." Trade Rifle in the style of Henry E. Leman, .54 caliber, 33" GRRW barrel, Ron Long percussion lock, curly maple, brass trim, used, by Green River Rifle Works, Roosevelt, Utah - Track of the Wolf

 

[burlesontom]

Thanks for the link. I looked it over. I will see if it relist if the other buyer doesn't get it. But I bet he does. There was a guy on another ML forum named Buck Conner that knew a lot about those rifles and had several go through his hands. I wish I could have picked one up from him. I also wish I had of known more about them when they were still being made.

I sent them a "notify me" email in case the deal falls through. Do you remember what they were wanting for the rifle?

 

[burlesontom]

Here it is. Says "Sale Pending."

They have removed the asking price. Do you remember what they wanted for the rifle?

 

[SlidePicker]

I'm sorry, I don't.

 

[leadhoarder]

well maybe with the impending death of the past time it is time to lower some standards?

When it is last call the standard always get lowered.