How many flint pistol shooters do we have here?

[TwoShadows]

For Bob1961 and Chickenlittle:

There is a trend in the circles I travel in toward longer barreled pistols. I havn't shot one of them yet, don't know how I would like it. I wouldn't shoot more than I could comfortably hold up with one hand I don't think.

Chickenlittle, I have taken a wild hog and numerous squirrels with a smoothbore shot load. Shot loads are my favorite for pistols. If you think about it for a minute, anything trying to hurt you getting into pistol range is sure to end up hurting itself when hit with a shot load. I would think it a great self defense asset from injuns and other critters.
I shoot the same load in my pistols as I do in my smoothbore long guns, EXCEPT I back off some on the powder! As a general rule most shot loads run out of pattern before they run out of penetration. I like about 40 grains of 3f and an ounce and a quarter of # 71/2 shot in my 20 guage pistols...or any of them for that matter. Recoil is a bit heavy with that load, but very effective when loaded properly with over powder wad/shot cushion/overshot wad.
Many times I have knocked out a squirrel that still has enough go power left to try and get in a hole or scamper away wounded....don't like the idea of that, so the pistol is perfect to administer the "coup de grace". That seems ethical to me as a hunter. About the only exception to that for me is when I carry my twice barreled flint shotgun...I like the concept of a quick second shot for just such reasons.

 

[Deadeye]

If you intend to rest this long barrel on something you may be able to shoot it accurately but if you intend to shoot it
offhand either 1 or 2 handed you'll find it very diffucult.
problem being that the barrel will recoil up then the muzzle heavy barrel will cause it to fall below point of aim
all this happening before the bullet gets out of the barrel.
This causes vertical stringing. Even with the rest ,with the longer barrel there is more chance of you moving the gun before the bullet exits. I frequently cut barrels for customers for this reason. About 9 to 10" is about as long as most can shoot accurately offhand.
Deadeye

 

[scatteringlead]

I built a traditions ky. flintlock last year, I have put a brass plate on the side opposite the lock engraved it "scattering balls". It was fun to build and fun to shoot I just hope where ever the bullets hit there was no damage done.

 

[Zonie]

Deadeye: I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you about the barrel rising from recoil then falling from weight before the bullet/ball gets out of the barrel.
As long as the bullet/ball is in the barrel and is accelerating ole Newtons law about "for every action there is a equal and opposite reaction" is still in control of things. The barrel will continue to rise from recoil about the center of gravity (just above your hand with a pistol) while the ball is accelerating.

In order for this not to happen the powder charge would have to be so small that the ball/bullet accelerates for the first few inches, then coasts for a few inches and then slows down during the rest of it's trip down the bore from friction (pulling the barrel forward with it).

IMHO even a powder charge of 6 grains behind a .75 cal ball/bullet wouldn't do that in a 16 inch barrel.

 

[WRussell]

Accuracy with a flint pistol offhand? How about this (from one of Keith Neal's books I think): Early 1800's, a guy is shooting swallows on the wing, using a ball, not shot, with a Manton dueler. Swallows dip and dart, then hover for a second, so that's when you let fly, but man...

This same guy was challenged to a duel (by an idiot, presumedly), fired his first shot in the air (standard procedure for 'I don't want to shoot you - if you shoot me you're a murderer'); challenger wouldn't buy it, demanded another go, so our marksman shot at and hit one of the fool's brass coat buttons. That decided it.

Some flint pistols are more accurate offhand than others. The British duelers were (and are) at the top of the heap.

- Bill

 

That would be a duel at 6 paces each, probably. From the data I've found, at least.
:Seems many of them were at a total of 12 yards as practised by the pistol owners. There was a couple friends who used a set of English duelers for their 'trick' shooting, snuffing a candle at 12 yards. Apparently it really used to frighten the Indians in the fort they were at. They held the 6" candle for each other and "snuffed the candle at each shot". Many pistols were .60 to .66 smoothbored with brass barreled. Most cased Flintlocks had rammers, but not the cased percussion duelers of later years.
: The French & German duelers were normally rifled, but not the British. Some western Americans used side by sides loaded with buckshot. No one lived through that, as both generally fell on the order to fire.
: The powder charges for dueling usually were very light, running from 15 to 20 gr. Some Rammers had a hollowed tip for the powder measure. The gun was held up over the top of the 'charged' rod, and lowered onto the powder, then the gun tipped back upright with the barrel up. This was so the tiny charge would all be at the bottom of the barrel. At one Duel in the West, the 'seconds' loaded the pistols with corks- the combatants were friends having a heated fight, and their seconds knew they really didn't want to kill each other. Honour was restored - both got corked. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
: Many of the large 'horse' pistols and military issued guns of .54 on upwards were very popular for shootng buffalo from horseback - I'm certain the light dueling charges weren't used. A heavy charge like used for defense or hunting would normally destroy the duelers due to exceptionally thin barrels at the swamp - as thin as .020 and LESSon brass barrels.
Daryl

 

[blckhrn]

Hi. I'm new here but saw this thread and though I'd put my $.02. I bought an old Jukar "kentucky" pistol on[url] AuctionArms.com[/url] last fall. .45 cal and it shoots the smallest flints you can find. This is also the fastest flintlock I've ever seen and was wondering if anyone can tell me why one is faster than another.

This pistol has no vent liner, the vent hole runs forward at an angle to beat the breechplug to the chamber and I had to shim under the tang to get the vent hole 65% exposed in the pan. Still it hardly lags at all like flint rifles I've shot. Can someone tell me why?

Also, somewhere up this thread someone asked for pics of flint pistols. I don't think mine really qualifies but[url] Trackofthewolf.com[/url] has pics of their kits both in the white and built as well as pistols built by gun builders who sell there.

 

Your pistol is amazingly fast because you've learned to hold your tongue in the proper position.(or you're just lucky) Angled hole suggests a long skinny channel- unless it's big enough to let powder close to the pan.
: The original lock on my .45 Flinter (handmade by the rifle maker) was very fast, too, but only becasue it had an oversize hole that self-primed when the gun was loaded.
: I put in a Whitelightening liner with stock hole (much smaller than 1/16") and it would hardly go off, with many miss & hang-fires. I changed locks to a Dickert (Track) and now it's noticably faster than before. Io opened the hole to 1/16" and now - with a good flint - very close to my wifes TC caplock.
Daryl

 

[Zonie]

I would guess: a Good Frizzen, a Good Flint, a Large vent hole and your loading the pan with just enough powder to catch the sparks and flash but not enough to bury the vent hole.

One of the most common mistakes made by people who are new to a flintlock is that they think "more is better" so they load the pan so full it covers the vent hole.
The best way to load the pan is tu use just enough powder to cover the entire bottom of the pan, but stay well below the vent. That way the flash has an unobstructed path right in to the main charge.

 

Anybuddy know wher I can git "plans" fer'a English Dragoon pistol?? I'm gonna order a .62 breeched 12" oct. to rnd. barrel from TVM. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

You can start by going to[url] militaryheritage.com[/url] asd transferring the pictures of their Dragons to your document folder, then you can view them and draw up your own plans.
: Sorry- unless[url] trackfothewolf.com[/url] has the plans, I don't know where you could get them, except for perhsps[url] therifleshoppe.com[/url].(affiliated)I would think the rifleshoppe has them.
Daryl

 

Daryl,.... Thanks!!.. I was kind'a think'n the same thing 'bout "militaryheritage.com", in fact I even thot 'bout buy'n one of ther English Dragoons!! (and, I still might!)

I kind'a like build'n my own stuff, and I'll check out "therifleshoppe"!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Thanks agin!
YMHS
rollingb

 

Pleasure is all mine. The price of their pistols is in the realm of the total cost of parts if you built your own.
: These pistols are incredibly low priced, yet the parts that are used look to be of splendid quality.
: I haven't made up my mind yet, whether I buy the 1717 or 1728/46 French Musket. The 1717 has a much better shaped stock for me, although the 12 pounds is too much for my back to bear for much shooting. The 1728/46 model as 11lbs., was the primary musket used by your ancestral countrymen during your revolution against the English. It has a steel horizontal pan and the frizzen spring should be long enough to allow used of the vent guard. I'll use one on the musket as large charges do squirt burning powder a long ways to the right of the shooter. The American service charge for this musket was 165gr. I presume the French load was identical.
: The 1777 Carbine might have to be the one I end up with - I've quite a quandry here. The Sea Service Brown Bess has a 37' barrel and should be around 10lbs., but the French muskets were ALWAYS better made & finished than the British & these muskets seem to follow the originals in that fashion.(judging by the photos)
: The .69 cal. American model of 1795 was the same gun as the 1763 Charleville. They were called Chareleville due to most of that model being made at the Charelville armoury.
Daryl