Hunter brings loaded rifle to the Range!

[Greenmtnboy]

:surrender: Note; a muzzle loading firearm in most states is NOT considered loaded until it is either capped or primed :v

Illinois is one of those states. Perfectly legal to drive around with it in the car so long as it's not capped or primed, hammer down, and in a case.
I've done it many times myself. Load at home then go hunting. Hunt until dark and drive home to pull the ball. Perfectly safe. No problem. Rule #1 always applys. :v

yup in VT and CO it's ok to have a loaded muzzleloader as long as it's not caped or primed.
I have one in my truck right now.
As long as you practice safe handling it should not be a problem.
:thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

At my club, every member is mandated to act as a Range Officer, and stop someone from doing anything un-safe. If the Range officer is distracted, or brain dead, Yell at the guy. And Yell first at the guy who is endangering someone who is down working on targets. Occasionally all of us have been absent minded and stepped up to do something with the gun before the range is clear. I appreciate someone yelling at me about that. I can't imagine a shooter NOT appreciating a warning that he is doing something unsafe.

So, be a friend, a good friend to everyone on the range. But must of all, be a friend to the owners of the range. It will be they who are sued, and the range might be closed because someone who could have said something to an idiot, didn't.

I was on a public range when I was a young teen, when a guy a few benches down from us was waiving his gun around every time he fire off-hand. He would turn to ask his buddy where he hit, and the muzzle of the gun would sweep the firing line first to the left, and then to the right when he swung back. Our range officer had been called away to another range to help repair something, and the first time I was aware of this idiot was when I saw other shooters all up and down the line getting up and walking back out of his line of " muzzle ". Finally, a small, but very angry group of men walked over, and someone told this guy what he was doing wrong, and told both of them if they did it again, they would be lucky of all that happened to them was being thrown off the range! They got the message. I learned an invaluable lesson.

 

[douglas34474]

In Florida, I can carry my MLs loaded and capped. Can carry any C/F rifle or shotgun loaded, in a case or not. Can carry my HG loaded as long as it is a holster.

I lived in California and Connecticut and left both because of their gun laws. Guess I'm glad not to have stopped in NJ. :winking:

Like others have posted, as long as he treated the gun as if it was loaded, no harm, IMHO.

 

[Robert an saa fan]

Agreed Paul.

I did report the unsafe actions to the ranger officer in cases mentioned after asking shooters to be safe.

Just wanted to keep post brief... got a bit too brief!



:thumbsup: :hatsoff:

 

[MikeC]

Smokin...He may have broken a club rule or two but not a NJ law. I too live in NJ and a muzzleloader of any kind is considered unloaded if it's uncapped or unprimed.

I do it all the time during the season.

 

[Pittsburghunter]

Not that I want to chuck gas on this fire (you can trust me, I would not do something like that :grin: )

Do you think the origional poster would have posted the same post if the gun in question was a percussion or flinter instead?

Just saying

 

[Zonie]

From a Safety viewpoint, I don't have a real problem with the idea of a charged but uncapped Percussion muzzleloader being considered "unloaded".
I do have a problem with a charged but unprimed Flintlock muzzleloader being considered unloaded though.

In a uncapped condition, there isn't much that can set off a Caplock but many times folks have fired a totally unprimed Flintlock by accident. If there is a spark from the frizzen (no matter the cause) there is a definite chanch the gun will fire.

In Arizona, a person can transport a fully loaded firearm in their vehicle as long as it is visible.
At the Gun Club I belong to however, a "Loaded" gun is not allowed except at the firing line, pointed downrange after the range officer has opened the line for shooting.

A charged muzzleloader is allowed behind the firing line to permit loading however it may not be capped or primed until it is pointed downrange at the firing line.
Between the loading bench and the firing line, the muzzle must be pointed at the sky only.

zonie

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Thanks to everyone for responding to my call for advice. Yes, a hunter can put a ML with a charge and a sabot or whatever in front of it into his / her vehicle. What they can't do is to show-up to a "cold" range, uncase, let people walk in front of it while posting targets, etc. The club By-Laws don't allow for this!

Bottom line is nobody, even me, wouldn't have cared IF he waited until the line was declared hot before he uncased, primed and fired. And let everybody know what he was doing so we would have the opportunity to be informed and let him go about his bussiness.

The club's secretary summed it up quite well: Just because you're a hunter, that fact in and of itself doesn't mean that you can break range safety rules and the club's By-Laws.

This is a private range where all of the members pay dues to belong to the club. One set of rules is applied to everybody, for safety's sake. It could be argued that the trustees hold a fiduciary responsibility to the members and as such the trustees have exposure to law suits as well...this is why the club has insurance for the trustees...exactly how much I don't know. And I don't want a Judge to have to figure it out either, if you know what I mean!!

Thanks again to all of those that responded!

All the best,

Dave

 

[roundball]

From a Safety viewpoint, I don't have a real problem with the idea of a charged but uncapped Percussion muzzleloader being considered "unloaded".
I do have a problem with a charged but unprimed Flintlock muzzleloader being considered unloaded though.

I think ANY charged but uncapped or unprimed muzzleloader should be sealed against any chance of an external ignition source, period.

When I used caplocks, I slide a tight fitting 1/8" black rubber vacuum tube 'end cap' (from auto stores) to seal the nipple tight. (kept the powder dry too)

And as I said above, on my Flintlocks I tape the vent. In addition the frizzen is open and wears a thick leather hammer stall.

My flinters when charged but unprimed are as safe as any caplock ever thought of being.

:v

 

[MikeC]

Dave,

You need to read your original post again. The way you wrote it gives the impression he walked up to a "hot" range, uncased, inserted a primer and fired.

Seems kosher to me at any range. That works at any of the NJ state ranges because until he inserted the primer that weapon was considered unloaded.

BTW...I agree with Zonie with regards to flintlocks. I use a leather sheath.

 

[Halftail]

150 grains of Pyro.....Musta been quite a Boom.I carry an unprimed muzzleloader in my Truck all the time to and from hunting.No big deal. :v

 

[john12865]

Other then it being an in-line, I'm not certain that a crime was committed here. :rotf:
I'm retired Law Enforcement Officer with over 20 years as a weapons trianing and range Officer.
In New York State, A muzzle loader with out a cap or charge in the pan, is considered to be unloaded.
I don't like in lines, but I really think that you don't know what you talking about.
I think you need to file some complaints and make an idiot of yourself.
Then maybe you'll feel better. :rotf:

 

[Tumblernotch]

Paul, we do the same thing at our club. We have an official range officer as well as a back-up to keep track of a timer and call the relays. Both of those guys also shoot. However, each of us keep an eye out for each other and any new shooter who may be there. We have a small membership now and most of the members have at least 20 years experience, some over 30 and a couple over 40, so we know what to look out for and we can give the RO a chance to shoot too. At the bigger events we used to host, the RO's spent all their time walking the line. But even with all the years experience we have, we know we can screw up and we definitely watch out for each other. We don't hesitate to yell a warning when needed. When a new member or any other visiting shooter comes, we tell them the rules of the range and remind them from time to time so that they get into the habit of doing things the safe way.
:grin:

And Zonie, what you said about priming only at the firing line and keeping the muzzle up is one of our main rules and we really have to watch new shooters on this one. There are too many guys who are used to shooting by themselves and are not used to having people to either side of them. We really have to watch out on woodswalks that people keep their muzzles up or pointing away from the trail where other shooters are walking.
:thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Our club decided to not allow any shooter on our woods walk to load his gun and carry it to the next station. You can clean the barrel and clear the nipple or vent, but you can't reload until you arrive at the next station to shoot. Then you load, move to the firing position when called, and then cap or prime. That way, we don't have to worry so much about guys falling with loaded guns in their hands. Our walk is set up in some ravines, with muddy, steep sides most of the year. A lot of the guys like to wear their skins, and moccasins to these shoot, and you can really slip badly wearing moccasins on a muddy trail. So far, only bruised egos, and tail bones, but no broken bones, and no one shot. After 20 years that gets to be a pretty good record.

 

[Tumblernotch]

The trail on our woodswalk is pretty short and level and the shooting stations are only a few yards apart. We don't have a set rule about loading, but after each one is shot we meander to the next one and some stay behind to wipe and some don't wipe until the next one. Some of us may load at the previous station but none prime until we're ready to shoot the target. And whether loaded or not, we keep our muzzles up or pointed across the creek away from all shooters and the camp area. We went over 30 years at the old range without mishap and we've been at our new one for at least 8 and the only injury was a broken ramrod poking a shooter's hand. We only have less than 10 shooters at our primitive matches and we all look out for each other.

 

[paulvallandigham]

MY club, The Tawaskote Longrifles, holds an annual rendezvous where other shooters are invited. We tightened the rules about carrying loaded guns because of having strangers walk the trails for the first time. Our current course is on my more level ground than at our last location, where it sometimes required real thought, and some ingenuity to figure out how to get up and down some of the hills. We even put steps in some of the trails to make it possible to walk them after a rain.

 

[CrackStock]

I think that he has come for better understanding and we are answering the question. Some with better content and presentation than others.

I think that it is best to clear your muzzle loading gun before going home, particularly a flintlock. This is plan A

I also think that a careful, trained and attentive person can render a charged ML reasonably safe for transport and/or storage.

As I said earlier, I prefer to fire my charge at the end of a hunt to make sure that all is working as anticipated; to see my point of impact and to take home a safer gun. However, I have left a charge in a gun for a few days at a hunting camp and even longer when I could not easily get to a place to conveniently fire. I have also used Silent ball dischargers and ball screws.

Take the time to learn what you are doing and study the laws where you are. Be extremely sure that you understand how your gun can be made safe and make very sure that you are never wrong.

Some people carry a gun every day and they have a different set of skills, habits and attitudes about them. Hopefully, these are positive ones, but this is not guaranteed. Practice does not make perfect -- only perfect practice does.

Watch your gun handling carefully and watch the other guys' as well.

CS

 

[Tumblernotch]

That makes perfect sense. We don't have as many visitors as we used to, but a few new members are coming in and they are learning fast. But, we always have to remember that even the old dogs can have a senior moment and forget what they've known for years. There is an area in our Primitive range that is extremely steep and the trail is hard to go up even without a gun in your hand, but at this time we're not shooting there.

Now, last Fall at a shoot on private property I saw an inexperienced shooter prime a flintlock straight from a 1 lb can with a lit cigar in his mouth and his face close to the lock, at the same time pointing his gun in the general direction of a couple of other guys. I almost had to go change my drawers! You can believe that another shooter and I both clouded up and rained all over him! We made the mistake of assuming that he knew at least the basics. I guess the important thing for us is to make sure any shooter that we're not familiar with has been trained at least in the safety aspects of the sport. And you can bet that we watched him like a hawk every time he had that rifle in his hand after that.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Not a crime, just a by-law regarding range safety.

Everybody else was informative. You took the low road and decided to be condescending :shake: . IF I am incorrect, I hereby appologize.

In reading further on this thread, I learned alot about safety in regards to woodswalks. My Son and I plan on attending our first sometime this summer. Thanks to all for your kindness and understanding to a shooter with only 37 years experience :shocked2: .

All the best to everyone on the Forum!

Dave