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Hunters Education Class and Muzzleloaders

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woodmaster62

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Hey All! :hatsoff:
Just food for thought, and maybe some of you have run into this yourselves.
I recently took my ten year old son to take a Ohio State Hunters Education Class at my local fish and game club. Now I have to admit it wasn't my idea of a good time and my son is a bit shy around strangers, but since it's the law around these parts these days, mom and I decided it was time to have him take the class. Parents are to attend so off my boy and I went.

We had a 3 hour class on a friday night, and an 8hour class saturday. I had told him beforehand that he would be a bit different than other kids that might be there because he shoots a 50 cal CVA Youth Muzzleloader. I had grandfathered into the hunting hunting licence system without testing but said sure about takeing the test my self.

The class had older and younger guys some with kids and some of the men just getting their licence for the first time. We went over shotgun and rifle design, usage and saftey first. He had a rifle and a shotgun to look over. Then we hit on muzzleloaders.
While the teacher was probably the 50-60 range (a retired policeman) and seemed very knowlegable on the class, the muzzleloader he presented to us was a Thompson Center Contender muzzleloader. While it was a beautiful gun with a thumbhole stock and scope it was AN INLINE. I guess it bothered me when he presented it as THE MUZZLELOADER it just kind of hit me wrong. He said the gun was todays muzzleloader, and the old style was no longer used much. Now I didn't quite agree with some of the things he had said so far I had kept my thoughts to my self. But when my son asked me was that really a muzzleloader I just couldn't help my self.

I told the teacher about some of the folks that I have been with here and there with period style muzzloaders and that they were definately still in use. I then told him about my Great Plains 50 cal capper and my sons 50 cal CVA Youth Model capper. He seemed a little surprised and seemed doubtful about my sons gun usage of a 50 cal muzzleloader. So after the friday class, I asked the teacher if he would like me to bring my boys gun with us the next day and he said sure.

So the next morning we took the Great Plains, the Youth Model, and I borrowed my bro-in-law's Traditions flinter. We also took my possibles bag and my powderhorn. The teacher had also brought a TC capper with a scope. There seemed to be a lot of surprised faces-kids and grownups. So then I ended up in front of the class demonstrating the REAL MUZZLELOADERS. I showed my horn and the teacher seemed surprised when I told him we used real blackpowder and that we shot patched roundballs. He seemed very surprised that we didn't shoot mini or maxi balls or sabots. I told him if I couldn't get my target at 40-50 yards I would probably hold the shot anyways since we used iron sights. I then had to show all the stuff in my possible bag and again had some "what is that thing" comments. I was probably up a half hour, but it seemed like hours.

Some of the class looked at the guns at break time and a few questions were asked. Most of the grownups seemed more interested in the inline but some did ask where you could get ones like ours.

I was surprised that the teacher did thank us for bringing the guns out to show as usually most people only asked about inlines. I just wish I could have talked my bro-in-law into letting me borrow his fowler flintlock instead of the Traditions flinter. I just hope we planted some seeds of thought.

And we did both pass the test. 99% for me and 100% for him.

Have a good one!! :thumbsup:
grumpy bear
 
Good story! You did a great public relation for our hobby. Thanks a lot. I wish this could be possible in GE. When you would come with a ML + equipment to a hunting class they will laugh at you and finally throw you out!
 
Kirrmeister said:
When you would come with a ML + equipment to a hunting class they will laugh at you and finally throw you out!
Why not. :hmm: You can tell them, that our forefathers hunt with these ' primitive' guns.They had exterminate in Germany the Wolf and Bear.
It's time to eliminate prejudices here in Germany.
:hatsoff:
 
Hey Swamp Rat, :hatsoff:
Nah, I didn't think at the time about giving the website, but I wish I would have. My brother-in-law has to take his daughter to the next Hunters ed class and says his flintlock fowler will definately be there. He said when he took his son last year it was pretty much about inlines then too. He said he kept his mouth shut because he didn't want to mess it up for his son, but now he thinks he'll try to put the thought foreward next time.

Have a good one! :thumbsup:
grumpy bear
 
Grumpybear,

Sounds like the Hunter Ed class was a success for all involved. You handled it perfectly. I've been an H/E Instructor in California for 20 years. Some 40 years ago when I took the class, it dealt entirely with gun safety. Now there are many subjects to teach besides safety such as Wildlife Management, Hunter Ethics, etc. I know a lot about each subject but I'm not an expert in any of them.

Your instructor did the right thing by letting you and your son show the class a side of muzzleloading that he hadn't experienced.

GW
 
Useless. Read the posts in the German Gunboard. Many idiots without any knowledge about ML, but nevertheless they post their opinion.
 
Kirrmeister said:
Useless. Read the posts in the German Gunboard. Many idiots without any knowledge about ML, but nevertheless they post their opinion.
Which gunboard?Is there a special one?
:hatsoff:
 
Hello undertaker, the link is[url] www.gunboard.de[/url] and there "Forum". In the Forum search the topic "Vorderlader" Schwarzpulverjagd.The theme is closed meanwhile by the moderator. There are a few guys, even hunters, which won't accept that other hunters are going to try ML hunting in GE.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Now i understand.Unbelievable.Some of these guys have no clue about muzzleloaders.I think they must go to the German Championship, where these guy's can see how accurate a muzzleloader can be.
Toby Bridges is nothing against some of these guy's.
:cursing: :cursing: :cursing:
Those who can read german,take a look.
Words fail me.
:youcrazy: :youcrazy: :youcrazy: :youcrazy:
 
Hi undertaker, perhaps we copy the hardest posts, translate them and show them to our fellow American hunters here in the forum so that they know which persons are running around in GE with a permission for hunting and owning firearms.I think another permission would be better. You know the german term "Jagdschein" as a synonym for crazy, ready for psychatric hospital.
 
Kirrmeister said:
You know the german term "Jagdschein" as a synonym for crazy, ready for psychatric hospital.
Yip, i think it was something with §61....
:hatsoff:
 
Ya done good!

I used to be a Hunters Ed instructor in Minnesota. A fellow DNR was ultra modern & as you may surmise I took the opposite extreme. When we did the ML part we would each bring in our respective guns & possibles. It may be my imagination but I think most of the kids were more interested in the traditional rout.

I would urge each of you that have the time to donate it to the 4H & like organizations that teach hunters ed to help ensure the next generation of traditional hunters.
 
grumpy bear,
my experience with the hunter ed course years ago was dissapointing but in a different way. When they got to muzzleloading, they brought out their 'expert'. He didnt have an inline because he preferred traditional guns. I thought that was cool, until he started talking. He proceeded to impress everyone with his historical expertise on the subject of the history of blackpowder and muzzleloaders. He had names wrong, dates wrong, the names of gun types wrong, historical events wrong, achievements attributed to the wrong people... He said these things wouldnt be on the test, but he wanted to impart his historical knowledge 'for our benefit'. :shake:

Kirrmeister said:
perhaps we copy the hardest posts, translate them and show them to our fellow American hunters here in the forum
That would be great. I would like to see what goes on with German hunters.
 
Jumpshot said:
Kirrmeister said:
perhaps we copy the hardest posts, translate them and show them to our fellow American hunters here in the forum
That would be great. I would like to see what goes on with German hunters.
You didn't know what you are asking for. :redface:
It's a shame.Toby Bridges is nothing against these guy's.They call a ML 'alte Prügel'.Guy's i must say i didn't know a translation for that.'Old bludgeon'? :hmm:
That we take 'altertümliche Waffen', 'ancient weapons'and that we want only 'desire to kill'.
:redface: :redface:
Ask Kirrmeister about that german forum.Sorry Claude.
:hatsoff:
 
The material in the Hunter Safety Manual has the correct dates, and names and descriptions. Shame on the instructor for getting it wrong. But, on the other hand, he is a volunteer, and you don't look gift horses in the mouth. Often, the instructor asked to teach ML to the class, is not a regular, certified instructor.

Each of you can help out, by volunteering to help teach Hunter Safety Classes in your State or Province. The same manual is used across the continent. I have been a volunteer instructor for more than 24 years, and I was " drafted " by a friend who thought I would do an excellent job talking about ML hunting. I then took the course, and then went on to become certified as an instructor back in 1982. My Bowhunting knowledge stopped when they brought out Compound bows, but didn't make them for Lefties. I have since acquired an LH compound bow, but still prefer to shoot stick or recurves. I try to invite one of my Bowhunting friends to come in and talk about the latest equipment, and show off his current gear, which seems to be always changing. Since its a safety course, and the test is geared towards safety, you have to limit the amount of information you give in class about the equipment used to focus o safety. But that does not mean you can't answer questions during class breaks, over the noon hour, or even have an extra day at the range so that the students can try out firearms, and bows and arrows. It just requires effort and more volunteers. Every BP gun club should be sponsoring a guest shooting day annually, open to the public, so that people can learn about this sport. The more publicity you generate, the better. You can invite scout troops, $-H clubs, and church student groups to come out to your club, and receive firearm safety instruction, and also basic marksmanship training. Somewhere along the way, you will educate people about the Traditional ways of doing our sport, and maybe make a few converts from the dark side. It does happen.
 

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