I don't like to use a ball starter.

[tenngun]

I thought it was the non-historical stuff.

Sort of .....it’s stuff that’s not historical but used in an historical way vs how it was done in the old days vs historical things we don’t do now vs things done in one area but not wide spread vs things done at one time Vs another.... hold it where were we

 

[Carbon 6]

Sort of .....it’s stuff that’s not historical but used in an historical way vs how it was done in the old days vs historical things we don’t do now vs things done in one area but not wide spread vs things done at one time Vs another.... hold it where were we

I think that rules out everyone to some degree or another. At least my ball starter isn't made out of plastic.

 

[tenngun]

Museum of The Fur Trade... and mine

 

[Carbon 6]

Yep, that deserves a like.

 

[UndeadPoet]

Question for the enlightened ones - how tight is too tight? When I hear people discussing having to pound a PBR down the barrel with a mallet, I worry that I could blow up my rifle if the PBR is fitting too snugly. Is that a needless worry (if the powder load is correct, etc.)?

Many thanks in advance for your response(s)!

UndeadPoet

 

[FishDFly]

Yes, needless worry.

 

[UndeadPoet]

Thanks, FishDFly! I appreciate the response.

UndeadPoet

 

[Enfield58]

I don't like using a ball starter either. That's why I purchased several coning tools for different calibers. Joe Wood is a great guy to do business with.

More information here: FOR SALE - Muzzle Coning Tool

 

[UndeadPoet]

Follow-up question - Any suggestions for roundball size and/or patch thickness for .44 caliber, percussion, 35" barrel? I have .430 and .433 round balls. With 0.15 pre-cut/lubed patches, I use a ball starter, but have also used my thumb to start them. Once in the barrel, they go pretty smoothly with the ramrod. Could I potentially use .440 roundballs (normally for .45 cal rifles)? If so, what patch thickness would I use? Again, trying to get the most accuracy/best performance, but do not want to mess up my rifle.

Thanks again!

UndeadPoet

 

[Eterry]

I was living in the sticks in 1980 when I built my 1st muzzle-loader. It was a 45 CVA Kentucky. My shop teacher told me to buy a .440 mold and get pillow ticking. Being 14 I asked mom to get me some ticking. She brought pill-case material and I didn't know the difference.

There was no internet, no YouTube, no cable TV, no library within 20 miles. I had only the included "How to use a black powder firearm" pamphlet from CVA to guide me. My only experience seeing folks use a muzzle-loader was Daniel Boone and Davey Crockett shows. THEY never use a short starter so I didn't know they existed.

I loaded what I thought was "tight enuff" loads and hit everything I aimed at out to about 70 yards. I never benched the gun, never needed to. I killed everything that walked in Montague County, except a deer which I never saw while hunting.

Fast forward about 5 years and I met a family who shot BP guns. One gave me a loading block and said I'd need a "short starter" to use it. He gave me one and I still have and use it.

I personally think we have a strong desire to shoot the smallest possible group, and go thru the steps it takes to get them, whereas the pioneer just wanted "minute-of-critter" groups and didn't want to carry anything extra in his sack, cause gravity works all day long. I also think he also didn't want anything to slow down his reload when starvation or lifting his hair was the result of a lengthy reload. If he was at the Public House and a match broke out, he might double up his patches or use thicker material, but probably not on the trail.

Did short starters exist? Sure they did. But so did the hot air balloon and you never heard of "ole Davey" riding in one of them.

 

[UndeadPoet]

Thank you, Bro.: Eterry. I am honestly most interested in being able to hit (and cleanly dispatch) game, if I am so disposed. I am currently less concerned with exact historical accuracy (although, I am trying to be as minimalist and less "modern" as possible). I am reacquainting myself with all things muzzle-loader, hence my novice questions.

Regards,

Bro.: UndeadPoet, PM

 

[UndeadPoet]

...Did short starters exist? Sure they did. But so did the hot air balloon and you never heard of "ole Davey" riding in one of them.

Yes, but you know "ole Davey" would have, if he could have (the hot-air ballon ride, that is).

 

[Brokennock]

Did short starters exist? Sure they did. But so did the hot air balloon

When?

Yes, but you know "ole Davey" would have, if he could have (the hot-air ballon ride, that is).

Are you sure? People thought differently then. Floating around above the earth in some heavier than air contraption? Sounds like heresy and the dark arts to me.....
(And this sounds to much like the overused, "if they'd a had it, they'd a used it," b.s.)

 

[Brokennock]

By some people's logic Simon Kenton was just as likely to wear a toga, while shooting a match lock, with a mace tucked in his sash. As he was to wear a rifle shirt, shoot a flintlock, and carry a tomahawk.

 

[Carbon 6]

I don't need a ball starter to shoot a deer, I don't even need one to shoot a squirrel, but I do need one to shoot squirrels in the head with consistency.
It also makes loading a lot easier and faster with less chance of breaking something or having something go wrong..

 

[mushka]

Everybody has a loading regimen, or should. Mine includes a short starter for everything but I'd never criticize anyone for not using one. We are all individualistic and this thread proves it.

 

[Crow-Feather]

Sorta makes me wonder how accurate rifles were back then. Do we find better accuracy as we have a larger choice of materials and better molds than in the 1800's. Or do we need all that fuss, as the men of yesteryear shot just as well.

 

[Eterry]

Sorta makes me wonder how accurate rifles were back then. Do we find better accuracy as we have a larger choice of materials and better molds than in the 1800's. Or do we need all that fuss, as the men of yesteryear shot just as well.

Rifles, like cars or horses, can be separated into classes. Almost everyone here has had rifles that shot good, some great, some so so. I think that's something that we have in common with our forefathers of the 18th century.

Two books I've found to give interesting info on muzzle loading rifles of old are The Muzzleloading Cap Lock Rifle by Ned Roberts and The Muzzleloading Rifle, Then and Now by Walter Cline.
The targets both present in their respective books would shock most shooters to their boots.
Cline had possession of a flintlock rifle he sent to various ammo companies to have velocities chronographed, and attached groups shot.
Roberts tells in detail of the great competition between American and Irish riflemen at the Creedmore range on Long Island.

 

[bigted]

Just thinking out load here:
Ml are crap, let’s face it. Some are works of art, and the best that technology could turn out at the time.
The propellant is crap, inefficient at best. The projectile is crap. Lousy aerodynamics, fly like a brick.
Sights? What a joke. V and blade... horrible sight picture. Oh we brag and play our little games, slap each other on the back and smile but what do we got in the end. Any cheap .22 off the shelf with a scope will shoot as well maybe better.
We can alter our guns just a tiny bit and get better then Boone or Kenton ever got. We can change the sights, play with our loads.
Is our sport playing with old guns in an old way, or getting the best but still third class performance from an generally old style gun. Both are viable options.

Agree ... we be crazed and I blame the charcoal! Letz not forget the expense!

A really good front stuffer is gonna set ya back 1500 dollars and more.

Lets face it ... at 22+ dollars per pound ... and at 80 grains per shot ... powder aint cheap.

Clothes ... further ya get into this crazyness ... the more cash is involved to dress ourselves in period correct dud's.

Travel ... do not forget the time off work and distance needed to travel to the next gathering.

Camp needs ... cash is needed ... or trade ... for blankets, canvas, pots and camp possibles that add up.

Well add it all together with the points that Tenngun mentioned and this becomes a wealthy mans pastime. I havve pondered this many times and it all adds up to an insanity that cannot be explained. We certainly try but when the cheek hits your pillow, we know ... this aint for the timid or faint of heart!

 

[Cruzatte]

Agree ... we be crazed and I blame the charcoal! Letz not forget the expense!

A really good front stuffer is gonna set ya back 1500 dollars and more.

Lets face it ... at 22+ dollars per pound ... and at 80 grains per shot ... powder aint cheap.

Clothes ... further ya get into this crazyness ... the more cash is involved to dress ourselves in period correct dud's.

Travel ... do not forget the time off work and distance needed to travel to the next gathering.

Camp needs ... cash is needed ... or trade ... for blankets, canvas, pots and camp possibles that add up.

Well add it all together with the points that Tenngun mentioned and this becomes a wealthy mans pastime. I havve pondered this many times and it all adds up to an insanity that cannot be explained. We certainly try but when the cheek hits your pillow, we know ... this aint for the timid or faint of heart!

Yeah.....I plead insanity. I'm just crazy 'bout that stuff!