I got a screw loose!

[Ed C.]

It is possible to break the leg off the bolt while trying to bend it. Commenting for a friend.

Delete.

 

[Wheelman]

So I opened her back up to do some adjusting and like a dummy I tried to bend the bolt spring instead of the bolt.
Then, after realizing my error, I tried to get the bolt spring back to where it was. Luckily, I don't think I bent it much.
I removed the bolt and wedged the tip of a very large screwdriver and let it set for a while.
Put it all together and the hammer would not stay back. So I thought for sure it was because I buggered the bolt spring but in reality, I had installed the bolt spring incorrectly. After thinking about it and sleeping on it, I realized my error and now it appears to be working fine.

Not sure how much I was able to bend the bolt as much as needed as I can see the issue visually looking through the underside without the bolt spring attached. I probably only moved it 15% of where it needs to be but I don't really know. I did not want to break it and I didn't want to heat it.

But I am getting good at taking it apart and putting it back together. Have not buggered any screws yet.

On a side note, I was also thinking of how one could harden the cam. I was thinking more along the lines of using a thin coating of something that would resist the wear. Was also wondering if a mold could be made from a new one and then be used to "repair" ones that are worn. Kind of like putting a cap on a tooth.

Glad I got a crash dummy to learn with and will be shooting her today.

Cheers.

Wheelman

 

[Ed C.]

So I opened her back up to do some adjusting and like a dummy I tried to bend the bolt spring instead of the bolt.
Then, after realizing my error, I tried to get the bolt spring back to where it was. Luckily, I don't think I bent it much.
I removed the bolt and wedged the tip of a very large screwdriver and let it set for a while.
Put it all together and the hammer would not stay back. So I thought for sure it was because I buggered the bolt spring but in reality, I had installed the bolt spring incorrectly. After thinking about it and sleeping on it, I realized my error and now it appears to be working fine.

Not sure how much I was able to bend the bolt as much as needed as I can see the issue visually looking through the underside without the bolt spring attached. I probably only moved it 15% of where it needs to be but I don't really know. I did not want to break it and I didn't want to heat it.

But I am getting good at taking it apart and putting it back together. Have not buggered any screws yet.

On a side note, I was also thinking of how one could harden the cam. I was thinking more along the lines of using a thin coating of something that would resist the wear. Was also wondering if a mold could be made from a new one and then be used to "repair" ones that are worn. Kind of like putting a cap on a tooth.

Glad I got a crash dummy to learn with and will be shooting her today.

Cheers.

Wheelman

Good luck shooting. Time to enjoy! MPO... don't even think about repairing, hardening or messing with the cam on the hammer. Very small changes make a big difference in the operation and timing. The parts are cheap enough. Buy new as needed. With BP it is very easy to "fix" things until they are broke! Part of doing your own gunsmithing is to not get ahead of your capabilities. I am now off to shoot my 1851 and the unmentionable Sharps.

 

[45D]

Wheelman, you can't just harden the cam, it's integral with the hammer. The hammer is hardened throughout ( not case hardened). The main thing is for the bolt arm to not slide off the side before it drops off the front.
The bolt spring is too heavy and needs to be lightened anyway. Heavy tension on the bolt is why ill fitted bolts chip away at cams as well as dig ditches on cylinders (which is why timing is important).

Mike

 

[Wheelman]

I very much appreciate the words of wisdom.

 

[Red Owl]

I'm late to this conversation.
FIRST, with normal tightening the screws ought to stay put for at least 100 rounds. That is, at the range, if you fire 100 rounds you shouldn't be having to re-tighten the screws. If you do, then the revolver just has poor tolerances and you might need lock-tite or something similar.
Second,. After a day's shooting, you ought to take the gun apart and clean up everything and re-assemble. Since you are getting used to this, fine. It will become automatic after a while.
3rd. Get a pair of GOOD (steel) screwdrivers and grind them down to EXACTLY fit the slots in the bolts. There should only be two sizes on most re-pros. This will eliminate deforming the slots in the bolts.
4th. Get a pizza pan to hold all the parts as you take down the revolver. Use a Q-tip to clean out small area. Oil all before re-assembly. On the bore, next time, before shooting, run a patch with rubbing alcohol down the bore to remove oil Burnt oil can turn into a brown tar that's hard to clean up.
ON THE GUNSMITHING. messing with one part can impact other things as all the parts work as a whole so SLOW DOWN. There are several books on gunsmithing the Colt 1873 Single Action Army. The lock work is basically the same so get one of those books as a guide. A lot of timing problems are due to a loose hand in an oversized slot wobbling around. Also, poor machining can cause the racket teeth to wear quickly, etc. Go slow on working with the lock work.
I have 50 year old Colt 1851's that are as good as the day I bought them. Baby your firearms.

 

[Griff093]

For disassembly I use a "mechanic's tray". And the Magna-Tip driver set from Brownell's.

 

[coupe]

WISCOASTER yup been an A&P since 1989. Been shooting cap n ball since 1975, and still learning!

 

[M. De Land]

So I opened her back up to do some adjusting and like a dummy I tried to bend the bolt spring instead of the bolt.
Then, after realizing my error, I tried to get the bolt spring back to where it was. Luckily, I don't think I bent it much.
I removed the bolt and wedged the tip of a very large screwdriver and let it set for a while.
Put it all together and the hammer would not stay back. So I thought for sure it was because I buggered the bolt spring but in reality, I had installed the bolt spring incorrectly. After thinking about it and sleeping on it, I realized my error and now it appears to be working fine.

Not sure how much I was able to bend the bolt as much as needed as I can see the issue visually looking through the underside without the bolt spring attached. I probably only moved it 15% of where it needs to be but I don't really know. I did not want to break it and I didn't want to heat it.

But I am getting good at taking it apart and putting it back together. Have not buggered any screws yet.

On a side note, I was also thinking of how one could harden the cam. I was thinking more along the lines of using a thin coating of something that would resist the wear. Was also wondering if a mold could be made from a new one and then be used to "repair" ones that are worn. Kind of like putting a cap on a tooth.

Glad I got a crash dummy to learn with and will be shooting her today.

Cheers.

Wheelman

I have both made new cams and installed collars on on existing cams to enlarge the diameter to retard bolt drop. Both work equally well when properly hardened, temper drawn and installed. New cams or collars are made a separate part from a hammer and can quite easily be replaced. I make mine of O-1 tool steel.

 

[M. De Land]

WISCOASTER yup been an A&P since 1989. Been shooting cap n ball since 1975, and still learning!

Yes, none of us knows everything about anything but God himself. If new ideas and counter thought weren't part of the equation of gun lore I'm sure I would soon become bored with the whole deal . Continual learning and testing what you think you know against counter thought is what advances the knowledge and keeps it interesting.

 

[M. De Land]

So I opened her back up to do some adjusting and like a dummy I tried to bend the bolt spring instead of the bolt.
Then, after realizing my error, I tried to get the bolt spring back to where it was. Luckily, I don't think I bent it much.
I removed the bolt and wedged the tip of a very large screwdriver and let it set for a while.
Put it all together and the hammer would not stay back. So I thought for sure it was because I buggered the bolt spring but in reality, I had installed the bolt spring incorrectly. After thinking about it and sleeping on it, I realized my error and now it appears to be working fine.

Not sure how much I was able to bend the bolt as much as needed as I can see the issue visually looking through the underside without the bolt spring attached. I probably only moved it 15% of where it needs to be but I don't really know. I did not want to break it and I didn't want to heat it.

But I am getting good at taking it apart and putting it back together. Have not buggered any screws yet.

On a side note, I was also thinking of how one could harden the cam. I was thinking more along the lines of using a thin coating of something that would resist the wear. Was also wondering if a mold could be made from a new one and then be used to "repair" ones that are worn. Kind of like putting a cap on a tooth.

Glad I got a crash dummy to learn with and will be shooting her today.

Cheers.

Wheelman

Here are some photos of lug shortening in the lathe , new cam installation and new wedge making, heat treating and fitting.
The factory wedge angle at the front is 5 degrees.
The lug shortening in the lathe requires very light cuts and swung on brass barrel bore centers to keep everything square and on center line. It can be done equally accurate by hand file and spotting fluid but is much less time consuming in a lathe. Also it is much easier to keep it square with the bore center line in the lathe.
You may notice I don't use a spring keep in the new wedge but rather a blind end troth to butt against the keep screw shoulder so it won't fall out when disassenbled.

 

[Ed C.]

Here are some photos of lug shortening in the lathe , new cam installation and new wedge making, heat treating and fitting.
The factory wedge angle at the front is 5 degrees.
The lug shortening in the lathe requires very light cuts and swung on brass barrel bore centers to keep everything square and on center line. It can be done equally accurate by hand file and spotting fluid but is much less time consuming in a lathe. Also it is much easier to keep it square with the bore center line in the lathe.
You may notice I don't use a spring keep in the new wedge but rather a blind end troth to butt against the keep screw shoulder so it won't fall out when disassenbled.

All of this is very interesting along with your post on making and reshaping cams but I'm sure that you realize that most of us do not have the tools or the knowledge acquired through years of doing machinist work and gunsmithing to effect fixes like this. Going out and testing yourself to the edge of your limits and imagination can be fun and challenging. Just be prepared to purchase plenty of parts and even a few guns along the way. And there is the matter of safety. Clint Eastwood's quote comes to mind, "A man has got to know his limitations"

 

[Wheelman]

I have a feeling this may end up being my favorite just because.
Been through this with guitars.
The grips need more detail but this aint a race.
Here is a pic of my Pietta and my friend with his new Pietta.
Happy to report both operational.

Thanks again!

Wheelman

 

[M. De Land]

All of this is very interesting along with your post on making and reshaping cams but I'm sure that you realize that most of us do not have the tools or the knowledge acquired through years of doing machinist work and gunsmithing to effect fixes like this. Going out and testing yourself to the edge of your limits and imagination can be fun and challenging. Just be prepared to purchase plenty of parts and even a few guns along the way. And there is the matter of safety. Clint Eastwood's quote comes to mind, "A man has got to know his limitations"

I was just showing possibilities for anyone with the desire to do ones own work. Keep in mind all the high tech stuff I have in the shop is for convenience and speed as the real gun mechanics of yore did all this stuff by hand with tools they often as not made themselves. Those were the real gunsmiths !

 

[Wheelman]

Never too old to try new things.

While others have taken deer on my land, I have never hunted although we have butchered deer, hog, and goat onsite.

This October, I am hoping to have my first hunt during muzzleloading season.

 

[coupe]

Good for you Wheelman, I hope you get the chance to harvest a nice deer this season off your own land. I was lucky enough to harvest game on my own land till I sold it and moved, 2 years ago I hunted on a friends woods for 14 years but was sold. Kinda hate looking at wma areas to many people one does not know!