Imported Guns Are Junk

[Semper_Smokey]

I've seen this one as well. Does seem like he's really knowledgeable, I just think his conclusion is only going to keep more new shooters from trying out the sport. He basically ends up saying, don't buy an import, save up to buy a custom. Have a look at the thread we have going on getting new shooters, but telling them they need a couple thousand dollars to go LARP in the woods with strangers is going to be a non-starter for most. I'd respect his suggestion more if he said start with a caplock, as I think he said the "quality issues" are less critical there.

 

[SamTex1949]

here is the youtube

 

[edw.marshall]

So says this guy I watched on YouTube last night. He said essentially, that the locks on imported factory built flintlocks are made poorly and it's pure luck to find one that functions properly. He also stated that the only way to get a lock that works consistently, is to have it custom made. What say you?

The firearms industry in Spain & Italy goes back over 500 years! I would think they know how to build a gun correctly!

 

[08Desert Trapper]

So says this guy I watched on YouTube last night. He said essentially, that the locks on imported factory built flintlocks are made poorly and it's pure luck to find one that functions properly. He also stated that the only way to get a lock that works consistently, is to have it custom made. What say you?

There’s some people on YouTube that seem to know what you’re talking about but I will give you a classic example of total another incorrect information

 

[08Desert Trapper]

So says this guy I watched on YouTube last night. He said essentially, that the locks on imported factory built flintlocks are made poorly and it's pure luck to find one that functions properly. He also stated that the only way to get a lock that works consistently, is to have it custom made. What say you?

First off my first gun was from Spain, that was a CVA Kentucky rifle still haven’t still attacked forever still puts a deer down in the woods
My second favorite rifle was a 54 caliber sharps paper cartridge it was made by IAB Marceno
Text driver put down deer be at Whitetail or black actually help put down a very angry black bear always performed well in the woods even in wet and frozen condition

I bought a India made English Trade gun that I reenact with
and I’ve shot several squirrels and rabbits with performs very well

for the record of performing and extremely challenging weather such as rain rain then treason rain then snow my musket has always fired but then I wear a Cape Coat

Some people on YouTube know if you’re talking about some people just know how to talk on the camera and just want to show themselves off

 

[John Spartan]

BS. My Perdersolis are great.

 

[Coinneach]

wonder if he drives a Toyota or Datsun.
OOPS! dated myself
there are so many imported guns that his argument is silly! there are good imported locks and great customs, just as there are good Yugo's and there are Roll's Royce.

Now about Datsuns, Trabis and Volkswagons.....

 

[Capnball]

So says this guy I watched on YouTube last night. He said essentially, that the locks on imported factory built flintlocks are made poorly and it's pure luck to find one that functions properly. He also stated that the only way to get a lock that works consistently, is to have it custom made. What say you?

I got a couple imported guns that still go bang every time I pull the trigger and I can put my shots basically where I want them out to over 100 yards. I'm not sure what's supposed to be junk. I'm sure there are junk imports but I've seen some junk built right here to. I guess quality control doesn't recognize borders. It all comes down to the craftsman and even they have good days and bad days. I used to work with my hands for a living. I put alot of meals on my families table back in the day but I can remember "those days" when I couldn't make anything work. I remember thinking while I was in it, "I should have stayed in bed today, I'm not doing anything for anybody today.
Next day? I was the man. I had the midas touch. I couldn't miss. It happens like that.

 

[Coinneach]

I HAD A TRADITIONS trapper and after 500 shots there wasnt any rifling in the last 4 inches of the barrel..SOFT STEEL these companys from guawanda land used. Lesser quality on barrels /parts ect..

Its the same ol litany, we only get what we pay for.

Keep compromising on quality then you'll keep paying for the same compromise over and over again.
That said almost all of us started with CVA kits or whatever to get into ML, young guys with young families and tight budgets being what they are.

But there comes a time when we tire of drooling over the prospect of that quality piece we habitually read about, and envy in catalogues and "The Muzzleloader" magazine etc.

We all have to meet our career and family responsibilities, well we should also accept that we've got a right to our own reward from time to time.

My advice is to squirrel your hard earned $ away and haunt the creditable sites (eg here) ask about availability and advice (even 2nd hand) for the ML options that appeal to you.

Focus on the one particular style and calibre that keeps appealing to you, and your particular shooting genre then work toward that alone.

Remember one of the humble lessons in life, its not how many you have of whatever; its the one piece of whatever that you prize the most that will always be valued by you.

 

[Surfinator58]

A lot of the guys on YouTube spend five or six thousand dollars on a custom-made Flintlock snub their noses at Imports but when you're paying that kind of money you can do that my Curry burner has never given me any trouble after spending a few hours tuning the lock

 

[Coinneach]

Best 8 shots I ever got out of a Pedro before it broke, and stayed broke for almost a year.

All imported muzzle stuffers are less than the American made ones.
[/QUOTE

I think Mr Tremain s jaded with his one mentioned problem Pedersoli. His one bad experience and other's hundreds of good experiences. Seems an odd comparison to me.

Well here in Australia I've had a few problems with Pedersoli ML's, (admittedly not with the earlier ones) and from what I'm hearing around my neck of the woods its become more common.

 

[Coinneach]

I'll up that bid; two bucks a pound for any traditional ML rifle that is complete and not broken. I'll even pay half of shipping. Bring 'em on. Dale

That'll be in Confederate Notes I'm thinkin......

 

[Coinneach]

Ardesa i have will fire around 14 times before i have to swab it once with a dry patch.
one pass and the accuracy comes right back.
3 -5 pumps in a bucket of water and it is clean.
can't ever remember a flash in the pan or klatch with it.
wish my own builds were more like that Junk import!

And you no doubt you get hand written notes from middle age overweight Spanish women, with shaven upper lips who work on the Ardesa production line offering Marriage ! LOL

There's an Aussie Army Ration pack true story behind that one.

 

[Coinneach]

Yes I must admit not many made like that originally a flint but converted to percussion by a lady gunmaker Patrick of Liverpool UK another image
Feltwad

View attachment 136858

Great buy mate, you did well.

 

[Coinneach]

The firearms industry in Spain & Italy goes back over 500 years! I would think they know how to build a gun correctly!

OK, but assuming that they always will "build a gun correctly" has to be an exercise in apathy to say the least.

 

[Mogadishu Meanderer]

here is the youtube

Hey Sam, thank you for posting the video. I wish everyone would’ve watch it before opining. I don’t believe that gentleman is far off from the truth when you see the context. He never said that they are junk, just made the point that they are production guns made with profit mostly in mind. I will bet that if any of us would make a video stating the opposite, something like “Don’t ever, ever get a Siler lock, a made in Spain CVA will do as good” we will be pummeled!!!

 

[mmb617]

I own 5 Traditions flintlocks. I shoot them often and don't have any real problem with any of them, so I guess you know where I stand on this issue.

Sometimes the problem is not the machine, but is instead the machine operator.

 

[doubleset]

Its the same ol litany, we only get what we pay for.

Yeah, this is (mostly) true -- though sometimes you get more than what you pay for and sometimes you get less and then spend time trying to convince yourself that you did get what you paid for. I think we've all been there.

But that aside, the real question is why we're paying for it. Are we paying for it (at least primarily) in order to use it and enjoy that use? Or are we paying for it in order to possess it and enjoy just having it. Everybody goes both ways on this. I have an 1872 US Cavalry light saber hanging on my fireplace that I just enjoy possessing. I never use it, and in fact it doesn't have an edge on it. But I really like it hanging there. I have a couple of rifles (WWII Swedish Mauser and a Swiss K31) that I mostly just enjoy having, but also enjoy shooting on occasion. I have a 1924 American (Buescher) Eb tuba that's a chunk of history and that I also enjoy playing, and I have a 1960s vintage Czech rotary valve "oval euphonium" that hangs on the wall and looks cool. But my "instruments for use" (tuba and bass trombone) are Chinese because they're affordable and they work really well. I have maybe a total of $3,500 in them while to buy the the "real" ones that they're cloned from would easily have cost me at least five times that much.

In terms of my BP stuff ... What got me into BP was that I inherited my Lyman GPR from my older son and started shooting it -- just to see what that experience was like. While it looks nice hanging on the wall, it's for use and partly for possession because it was his. My Traditions Crockett rifle is primarily for use, but also looks nice hanging on the wall. Both of these are perfectly functional, may not be up to "custom" or "handmade" standards, but that's not why I have them. In all of these, did I get what I paid for? Absolutely. Am I happy with that? Absolutely.

To launch some YouTube (or social media) jihad where you dump on the quality of commercially manufactured items (of any sort) in favor of custom made ones is just silly (I don't actually have a better word for it ). And it won't have any effect on current BP shooters or future ones -- who make their own decisions based on their own goals and resources. It's just social media puffery , although it may contain some useful information if you want to sit through it.

 

[longtoothpard]

My Miroku-made Charleville, made in Japan, is 30+ years old. Never fails to fire.

 

[Coinneach]

Yeah, this is (mostly) true -- though sometimes you get more than what you pay for and sometimes you get less and then spend time trying to convince yourself that you did get what you paid for. I think we've all been there.

But that aside, the real question is why we're paying for it. Are we paying for it (at least primarily) in order to use it and enjoy that use? Or are we paying for it in order to possess it and enjoy just having it. Everybody goes both ways on this. I have an 1872 US Cavalry light saber hanging on my fireplace that I just enjoy possessing. I never use it, and in fact it doesn't have an edge on it. But I really like it hanging there. I have a couple of rifles (WWII Swedish Mauser and a Swiss K31) that I mostly just enjoy having, but also enjoy shooting on occasion. I have a 1924 American (Buescher) Eb tuba that's a chunk of history and that I also enjoy playing, and I have a 1960s vintage Czech rotary valve "oval euphonium" that hangs on the wall and looks cool. But my "instruments for use" (tuba and bass trombone) are Chinese because they're affordable and they work really well. I have maybe a total of $3,500 in them while to buy the the "real" ones that they're cloned from would easily have cost me at least five times that much.

In terms of my BP stuff ... What got me into BP was that I inherited my Lyman GPR from my older son and started shooting it -- just to see what that experience was like. While it looks nice hanging on the wall, it's for use and partly for possession because it was his. My Traditions Crockett rifle is primarily for use, but also looks nice hanging on the wall. Both of these are perfectly functional, may not be up to "custom" or "handmade" standards, but that's not why I have them. In all of these, did I get what I paid for? Absolutely. Am I happy with that? Absolutely.

To launch some YouTube (or social media) jihad where you dump on the quality of commercially manufactured items (of any sort) in favor of custom made ones is just silly (I don't actually have a better word for it ). And it won't have any effect on current BP shooters or future ones -- who make their own decisions based on their own goals and resources. It's just social media puffery , although it may contain some useful information if you want to sit through it.

Good perspective, I reckon it all comes down to "Horses for Courses" in that we all have our own priorities and preferences; and no-one should be judged for it.

My perspective was focussed on the medium to long term sustainability of a ML piece, rather than a short to maybe medium term practical use of the same.

One of the great positives about aging is that we've already made the blunders that younger folk are about to, and we're very much aware of the intrinsic value of quality over quantity. That's not meant to imply a higher expenditure per se, consider it more about measuring what you pay for in relation to what you're getting for it.

There are hard times around the corner, look after your money.