Imported Guns Are Junk

[Coinneach]

Hey Sam, thank you for posting the video. I wish everyone would’ve watch it before opining. I don’t believe that gentleman is far off from the truth when you see the context. He never said that they are junk, just made the point that they are production guns made with profit mostly in mind. I will bet that if any of us would make a video stating the opposite, something like “Don’t ever, ever get a Siler lock, a made in Spain CVA will do as good” we will be pummeled!!!

An outstanding presentation, I learned from experienced wiser men than I years ago; that it all starts with the Lock itself, buy sub standard and expect ongoing problems.

 

[Rudyard]

I HAD A TRADITIONS trapper and after 500 shots there wasnt any rifling in the last 4 inches of the barrel..SOFT STEEL these companys from guawanda land used. Lesser quality on barrels /parts ect..

Did you use a fibre glass rod perchance ?. I cant comment further Iv'e never seen a' Traditions' any thing and other than a Parker Hale have never had any modern factory gun other than my own make in my battery . Rudyard

 

[Colonial Boy]

Did you use a fibre glass rod perchance ?. I cant comment further Iv'e never seen a' Traditions' any thing and other than a Parker Hale have never had any modern factory gun other than my own make in my battery . Rudyard

Nothing like the old fibre glass abrasive stick for wearing out barrels, unless it’s the pull-throug
Let us also remember that iron barrels are soft and many old guns have them and are still going strong.

 

[Josephg]

Presently I own one modern import percussion rifle. The rear sight went in the junk drawer first thing. The rifle has poorly executed cut checkering. Very accurate rifle. I like it. I've seen other imports that look like crap. They don't have to look good to shoot good. I've seen import locks with coil springs and no bridle. Weird and cheap. Nice that most of us can have fun shooting muzzleloaders no matter our skills or income.

 

[doubleset]

Did you use a fibre glass rod perchance ? ...

Good catch. If not something like this, it's difficult to imagine why only the last few inches of the barrel would be affected.

 

[PastorB]

My Pedersoli flintlocks work just fine. I have one (Frontier Rifle) that originally was percussion, and converted it to flint using a replacement lock from TOW. The replacement lock works fine, but no better than the original factory locks on my other guns.

 

[Capnball]

Hey Sam, thank you for posting the video. I wish everyone would’ve watch it before opining. I don’t believe that gentleman is far off from the truth when you see the context. He never said that they are junk, just made the point that they are production guns made with profit mostly in mind. I will bet that if any of us would make a video stating the opposite, something like “Don’t ever, ever get a Siler lock, a made in Spain CVA will do as good” we will be pummeled!!!

Oh that can be said of almost anything once the bean counters get involved. I remember watching a "how it's made" type of show on TV once. It was about a baker who came up with this flakey cone shaped pastry filled with some kind of deliciousness that people were lining up around the block on Sundays to get. The bean counters bought a box of them and decided they were going to make them in a factory and make a million bucks. They couldn't make the dough as flakey so they came up with something that tasted "about the same". They couldn't extrude a cone shape so they went with an off the shelf production machine that basically cranked out something that looked like a cereal bar. They couldn't get the shelf life of the filling so they changed that completely to some kind of a shelf stable fruit filling and packaged it all in an envelope. They did sell a million bucks worth of them but not one person who bought one ever got to experience the real thing and nobody ever lined up for a box of them.
While really very sad, it did serve a purpose. It always comes down to the bucks. It is possible to reduce a multi thousand dollar piece of art to a $700 assembly line model T, available to the masses but that only makes the original more valuable and more sought after.

 

[08Desert Trapper]

So says this guy I watched on YouTube last night. He said essentially, that the locks on imported factory built flintlocks are made poorly and it's pure luck to find one that functions properly. He also stated that the only way to get a lock that works consistently, is to have it custom made. What say you?

Show walkabout you’re gonna take one person’s opinion personally never met a person who may have no idea what you’re doing they may be able to do a video but they may not know jack squat about guns is something everyone needs to think about anyone these days as long as I know how to make a video to make a video about anything and most of them are complete and utter moron

 

[Joemolf]

The guy is Steve Sells. I didn’t get the same impression. I know from my on experience much of what he says is true but at the same time like my pendersolis and Uberties they are not perfect. all that I have purchased requires tweaking. From touch hole issues to timing issues nothing that can’t be remedied. He does diss locks quite a bit but since I only have a Brown Bess and 2 charsville that work less touch holes being drilled into the breach plugs which I corrected I can’t complain about the locks themselves. Some of that was exaggerated in my opinion but I have read about lock issues. I was not turned off by the video just found it to be informative. And yes my custom flintlocks just work that’s why I paid what I paid which was significantly more than a import if you will. For what you are paying for an import your getting pretty close unless of course your buying brand x imports but even they can and do work. Otherwise no one would buy them.

 

[flintsteel]

Yes I must admit not many made like that originally a flint but converted to percussion by a lady gunmaker Patrick of Liverpool UK another image
Feltwad

View attachment 136858

That would be Ann Patrick, who continued the business after her husband, Edward, died. Eadward and his father, Jeremiah, were very active in the flintlock period. In 1833 she sold the business to Thomas Williams & Samuel Powell who produced very high quality arms. In 1905 Williams & Powell sold to Westley Richards.

You have a very nice original piece!

 

[Rock Home Isle]

I tended to agree with him…most locks on these guns don’t function unless you take the lock and invest time in polishing and making minor mechanical changes. If I can, I replace the lock with a better quality lock, or I don’t buy the gun. Those early CVA Flintlocks had frizzens that were so thin and the tempering was sporadic at best…the TC flintlocks had inconsistent tempering…I’ve complained about them before. The failure to ignite the charge, open the flash hole out to 1/16th and call it good.

 

[deerstalkert]

the line i draw for quality, is the lock must have a bridle. if it has a bridle it can be tuned up to work well. i have had to replace a couple bridles on lesser priced guns. made the new bridle from planner blade. in the year 3022 those suckers will still be working.
i had an old friend that used to say "there is an azz for every seat". that can be applied to muzzleloaders as well. even Yugo sold cars here. the lesser quality starter guns have brought many into the obsession,...... i mean sport!

 

[Feltwad]

That would be Ann Patrick, who continued the business after her husband, Edward, died. Eadward and his father, Jeremiah, were very active in the flintlock period. In 1833 she sold the business to Thomas Williams & Samuel Powell who produced very high quality arms. In 1905 Williams & Powell sold to Westley Richards.

You have a very nice original piece!

Yes that is correct .
Feltwad

 

[Byron A Rudrow]

If you get an import rifle/musket/pistol and you tinker with it and make it work properly and enjoy shooting her then that’s great! For some the tinkering is half the fun. I try to redo and refinish my imports to make them functional and more historically accurate.
All that said, “I Will Not Buy A Firearm From India”!!!!

 

[Philip Lebow]

Gents, I have an old Italian ML English rifle, that I bought in the late 70's. Knowing nothing, I wiped out the last 4 inches of the barrel from cleaning!
I used a wooden rod that got imbedded with grit, and just lapped the barrel away. Now I use a rod guide with a steel rod. Better life of the tubes!
Dutch Schoultz sent me the rod and rod guide he made for me, to correct my stupidity. Thanks Dutch, miss you.

 

[Howard Pippin]

Opinions run pretty strong on these boards, and well they should, most of us have been around for many many years. I hunted several different ways. Recurve, compound, several unmentionables and just a few muzzleloaders. And the problem was, this was only one of many hobbies and I never put major bucks into any of them. Herters was my first archery store, and commercial made rifles worked for the rest, except for one wildcat. If I would've had to wait for a custom-made muzzleloader, I would have missed that part of my life. Now that I'm over four score, one of those is pretty far down the list but my three imports and one TC have fit the bill pretty good. I don't drive tacks, neither do I shoot 1000 yards but I have killed some deer, 1 antelope, and a few paper turkeys and even got part of my entry fee back. I enjoy the discussions and that's why I'm here.
Squint

 

[jimhallam]

I HAD A TRADITIONS trapper and after 500 shots there wasnt any rifling in the last 4 inches of the barrel..SOFT STEEL these companys from guawanda land used. Lesser quality on barrels /parts ect..

Of COURSE they do -- - - they are made down to a price: as they used to say in the East End of London .... "Yer tikes yer money an' tikes yer choice, squire."
These days that area uses different language ;-)))

 

[jimhallam]

Best 8 shots I ever got out of a Pedro before it broke, and stayed broke for almost a year.

All imported muzzle stuffers are less than the American made ones.

Depends who made them ;-)

 

[LME]

Opinions run pretty strong on these boards, and well they should, most of us have been around for many many years. I hunted several different ways. Recurve, compound, several unmentionables and just a few muzzleloaders. And the problem was, this was only one of many hobbies and I never put major bucks into any of them. Herters was my first archery store, and commercial made rifles worked for the rest, except for one wildcat. If I would've had to wait for a custom-made muzzleloader, I would have missed that part of my life. Now that I'm over four score, one of those is pretty far down the list but my three imports and one TC have fit the bill pretty good. I don't drive tacks, neither do I shoot 1000 yards but I have killed some deer, 1 antelope, and a few paper turkeys and even got part of my entry fee back. I enjoy the discussions and that's why I'm here.
Squint

You are a smart man! I to have used guns from just about every where on this earth with no major problems. I also have worked on several in my long life. The one thing that kept dancing in my mind was most of the problem were from people working on their weapon or operater error.

 

[IronHand]

You can't have champagne tastes with a beer pocketbook.

Quality costs, set your expectations accordingly.

IronHand