Impulse buy

Well, I impulsed a Pedersoli Brown-Bess carbine from CDNN today. The price seemed good and I have wanted some sort of a flintlock for a while now. I live in CA you see, and because the anti's seems so all fired up to ban everything in sight I have let that drive my firearm purchases for years now. Not being filthy rich I have to watch my purchases and tend to buy the stuff I feel will be the next to go. Which means I have a lot of modern handguns and rifles. But I have always liked the look of the military style muskets. So when I looked at the bess in the new CDNN catalog I just went with the flow.

I have not fired a muzzleloader since Boy Scout camp many years ago. I feel confident enough to be able to use my new bess, but would like a good source book or internet site that gives the basics of how to safely shoot. Measure twice, cut once as the saying goes. Any recomendations?

Also, from a historical perspective, was there really a carbine version of the bess? Being a first musket I'm not too concerned about how historically accurate it is but I'd like to know how close it is.

Thanks

Rich

 

[trent/OH]

What is CDNN? Sounds like a web site to check out, but you need to give us a report on how this baby shoots!

 

[Rebel]

You say it is a Bess carbine. How long is the barrel? Is it the 30 1/2" one? How much did it cost? There is a lot of info here on this sight about loads for Bess's and everything else. I think that Rat has a Bess carbine and he should be able to give you some load advice. Have fun with it. To bad about you having to live in N.J. West. ::

 

CDNN is a discounter of shooting sporting goods. They can have anything at anytime and carry a lot of in-line muzzeloaders but most of there stuff is modern material. Some of thier stuff is surplus, some is overuns, discontinued models, 2nds, police trade ins, etc. I always call and ask about an item before I buy just so I know what it is. They assured me the bess was a fist quality item, so I bit. They have been decent to do biz with on the 4-5 other purchases I have made through them- which were mostly ammo and mags. I paid $710 including shipping for the bess.

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/ They don't list firearms on the online pages but they have a pdf of the current catalog that you can download which does list firearms.

 

Yep, it is the .75 cal, 30.5 inch barrel Pedersoli.

 

[Arkie]

I have heard a few accounts of Rogers Rangers cutting their muskets down to make them easier to use in the forest.

 

[musketman]

There's nothing like a bess... :winking:

Lyman's Black Powder Handbook has loading info for the bess, both roundball and shot...

I'll give ya a few to get started...

.715 round ball
.020 thick pillow tick patch
(lubed with whatever you choose)
80 grains FFg
879 fps

.715 round ball
.020 thick pillow tick patch
(lubed with whatever you choose)
90 grains FFg
943 fps

.715 round ball
.020 thick pillow tick patch
(lubed with whatever you choose)
100 grains FFg
1006 fps

.715 round ball
.020 thick pillow tick patch
(lubed with whatever you choose)
110 grains FFg
1047 fps

.715 round ball
.020 thick pillow tick patch
(lubed with whatever you choose)
120 grains FFg
1088 fps

Now the bess will fire just fine with FFg in the priming pan, just in case you can't get FFFFg...

My bess doesn't do well with FFFg for the main charge, it likes the slower burning stuff, like FFg or even Fg...

Most flintlocks will misfire when using Pyrodex or 777 in the main charge, they like real black powder, I can't blame them either...

 

[Bushwhacker]

I have heard a few accounts of Rogers Rangers cutting their muskets down to make them easier to use in the forest.

They make good clubs also :m2c:

 

[2nd artillery]

I got a bess last year. But I figured if i was going to buy a musket why not get the biggest, heaviest one. And the fact that I can use the first modle for both f&i and revolutionary war reenactments.

 

[olgriz]

In my book "Weapons of the American Revolution" by Warren Moore it says to wit:
CARBINES
"Another category of shoulder weapon is the carbine. These were used by the horse, dragoons, and light dragoons, and also by artillerymen. Barrel lengths usually ranged from about 28 inches to 37 inches, and cavalry models had a saddle ring and bar device. Little is known today of these early short-barreled carbines carried by the horse, or heavy cavalry. In addition to the sword belt slung from his right shoulder, the horse trooper and light dragoon carried a carbine on a belt slung over his left shoulder, to which was attached a swivel, chain and 'T' to sling his carbine".
They call it a saddle ring, but it isn't used to hang the carbine from the saddle, it is the attachment for the carbine sling. The T would have been turned so that it would fit through the saddle ring as opposed to the swivel and snap that was used later, up through the Civil War until there was no longer any mounted cavalry in service.
There are also three photos of Brown Bess Carbines in the book, the first two have 37 inch barrels, full stock clear to the muzzle with no nose cap, and a front sight that can't be a bayonet lug because the wood is in the way. Total length on both of these guns is 4 feet 5 inches. There is no saddle ring on the stapel of these muskets, and the stapel runs from just behind the Brown Bess style side plate all the way to the bulge in the stock up by the entry thimble. The second one is .65 caliber, and there is no caliber given on the other two. The third one has a nose cap and looks just like the front of a regular Brown Bess. It has a 28 inch barrel, 3 feet 8 inches over all. There is lots more wood in the stock than the other two, and if there is that Brown Bess bulge in the forestock, it doesn't show up well in the photo. I'd say it doesn't have one. The sideplate is non typical Brown Bess, and the staple is attached at the rear using a side plate bolt. This one has a ring on the staple, and the staple is unique in that it goes half way up the fore stock and then curves under the stock and attaches with what looks like a yoke that is bolted through the forestock. I would expect that is the reason for the extra wood, that bolt has to go between the barrel and the ramrod. So anyhow, yes, there were carbines way back at least to 1760.

 

[jim gray]

I have heard a few accounts of Rogers Rangers cutting their muskets down to make them easier to use in the forest.

I think that a lot of military muskets and other military equipment would have been modified for civilian use as well as for special purpose units. In the case of Rodgers' Rangers the reduction of weight may have been as beneficial as the ease of use.

 

Thanks for all that info!

I have a lube question, do I put a light coat on the patch or do I put it on thick? I figure I will use Crisco to start as I can filch it from my honey. Also how big should a patch be?

Thanks!

Rich

 

[musketman]

Thanks for all that info!

I have a lube question, do I put a light coat on the patch or do I put it on thick? I figure I will use Crisco to start as I can filch it from my honey. Also how big should a patch be?

The easiest way to measure the patch size is to take a large square of patching material (you'll need the extra to pop the roundball back out of the barrel), and start a roundball in the unlubed patch... (do not cut off the patch)

Take a pen or magic marker and mark the material flush with the barrel, now pull the patched roundball out by the extra corners of the large patching material...

Next, unfold the patch and measure the mark you made on it, this will tell you the diameter needed to patch your .715 roundballs...

As for the lube...

I put paste lubes on thickly and liquid lubes on sparsely...

As for Crisco, do NOT use butter flavored Crisco as a patch lube, there's no margarine for error... :crackup: :crackup:

 

[Rebel]

There's no margarine for error? Ohh Boy was that an Imperial joke or what.

 

[Rat]

Well I think you will like your Carbine, I've had the Pedersoli Bess carbine for about four years now. You sure can't beat that super-size musket lock and giant flints for reliabilitiy.

I use mine for hunting, so I shoot 110 grains of ffg Swiss under a .735" ball. For just fun shooting I'd drop that to about 90 grains and use a smaller ball.

I tried to use fg Goex at first and did not get very good results with it. It burnt patches badly and fouled badly. fffg goex worked better in both respects, but ffg Swiss is the best.

With my tight ball/patch combo, I get the most consecutive shots using Wonder Lube 1000+, and a wonder-wad under the ball. I put long-rifle sights on my carbine, and the ball load will kill a paper plate every time out to 70 yards under ideal conditions, or off the bench. At fifty yards she'll do 3-4" groups, and at 25 it's pinwheels every time, especially from a clean barrel.

I also hunt grouse and turkey with it. With shot loads I use the fg Goex, but mostly just to use it up. It throws very tight shot patterns. I use 110 grains with the Turkey load and 100 grains with the grouse load.

The gun handles very well, and is a joy to carry hunting. Just a tad muzzle light though.

I use SLIGHTLY crunched fffg for priming, and coned the outside of my touch hole slightly. I also SLIGHTLY deepened the pan. (must be VERY careful doing that with a round barrel) Iginition is 100% reliable, and very fast with a sharp flint and clean frizzen.

When you prime, don't use a lot of priming, and make sure it is NOT covering the touch-hole.

I love Bloody Bess.

Rat

 

Thanks for all the replies everyone!

Hey Rat, what sized flint has been the best with your bess so far? What's a good source for them? And while I have your attention, what basic equipment should I have? I have nothing at all yet, but there is a gunshow at the Cow Palace this weekend and I figure I can hunt up what I need there. I guess I'm looking for all around stuff for muzzeloading as much as bess stuff.


Thanks for all the help and the warm welcome to your forum. If I could think of a butter pun to SLIP in here I would, but my brain isn't working fast enough.

 

[kentucky bucky]

That joke made my stomach churn. You know how to spread it on thick.

 

[Rebel]

Boy ohh boy, i think all of us have way TOO much time on our hands. But thanks for trying to BUTTER me up with the compliment. :crackup:

 

[Rat]

I can't believe it's not bore-butter.

Anyhow, the 1" flints seem to work great, I do have a monster 1 and 1/8" flint, but I really can't tell any difference when I tried it. I keep it around just for the "wow appeal". I also figure I could pull it out of the jaws, and gut and skin a deer with it. HUGE!

For flints, what's his name (Tom Fuller?) black English flints...October Country and TOW both have them. I always patronize October Country as they are the greatest people and deserve all the bizz they can get.

I'm a little un-conventional on equipment, I use paper powder cartridges when hunting, but just use a measure at the range. I prime with a small priming horn. When hunting I use a ball-block, but again at the range just loose balls, and patches.

My bore measures out at .750", and I use a .735" ball, but I think a .725-730" would be best...although I do get great accuracy...the .735" is a tight fit, and I only get about six shots without cleaning or wiping, using Swiss ffg powder, wonder wads and Wonder Lube 1000+ for lube. Some people such as the Musket Man seem to get good results with the .715", no doubt for just plain shootin' that would work great.

You may want a powder and priming horn, powder measure, and will probably need a short-starter. Short starters are also easy to make. On the priming horn, some people just prime from the main-horn, or whatever powder they use for the main charge. I started out with a priming horn, and am just in the habit now. And I use ffg, so I just kind of prefer to prime with fffg or SLIGHTLY crunched fffg.

You might want one of those little tiny pan-brushes, and a vent pick. (October country sells them as a set) I never use my vent pick, but keep it handy just in case. The pan brush I use a lot. Actually, when I'm hunting and I have any reason to suspect moisture in my main charge, the pick works great to feel if the powder is dry. It always is. As far as picking the vent between shots I never do that. Keep them both dangling on the strap for my priming horn.

That's all I need to keep Bess happy, but there's tons of other stuff as well.

After you kill something with Bess, then you can call her Bloody Bess...but not before!

Of course in this case, we may call your carbine the "Buttery Bess".

Rat

 

If she will shoot slick as butter, "Buttery Bess" may be an allright name...

Thanks for all the info once again, and I hadn't found October Country yet, though I did find TOTW and Dixie, any other great internet or catalog stores to check out?