India Barrel Failure

[Commodore Swab]

So summing things up. . .
A barrel from an unknown builder in India was proofed in such a way as to be questionable and failed.

So the conclusion is to use this single example as an example as to how known different builders are producing something that might be unsafe?

How does that make sense?

 

[Aglukan]

So summing things up. . .
A barrel from an unknown builder in India was proofed in such a way as to be questionable and failed.

So the conclusion is to use this single example as an example as to how known different builders are producing something that might be unsafe?

How does that make sense?

How was the proof test questionable? And who’s questioning it ?

didn’t you say you knew the barrel came from? And when it was made?

Where was it said a single example makes it unsafe?

I had asked to have mine proof tested by a private company in Florida , and they declined the request upon visual inspection something to do with how the back was connected to the barrel.

 

[Aglukan]

Our barrels are proofed by legal council.
The ever-present threat of lawsuits keeps barrel makers on point. They wouldn't dare, knowingly, put a risky barrel out there.

I had contacted a private company to do a proofed test of my Indian made Bess. They declined the request cited due to a lack of available information and they didnt like the visual inspection of the barrel.

 

[Aglukan]

Side note, India has the best machining capability in the world right now.

I have family in India and i can state without a doubt that this is not correct. India’s issues with machining has nothing to do with their capabilities but its to do with political hurdles, rights and skilled labor. We are also being outbid by China in major contracts.

 

[brushblind]

Not sure i agree with that, Dixie gun works and Taylor’s both are selling various Pedersoli products for below the base. Dixie’s Brown Bess was 900 back in 2019, is now 1295, for a brand new out of the box musket with a distributor and manufactures warranty that’s a pretty good deal.

In the secondary market, you can get used pedersoli’s and navy arms guns for under 1,000 or sometimes even less.

Loyalist arms is probably the only Indian made gun dealer I’d recommend in the USA. I just spoke with someone yesterday who is waiting on his 4th year for a middlesex trading Fowler, he’s attempted to cancel and the business owner refuses a refund, that was $725 bucks 4 years ago, inflated now around 900 as a loan to purchase ghost inventory.

But thank god Indian guns are cheaper….you may never actually get one.

I was using retail suggested prices for comparison and your right some outlets maybe get a price break depending on how much they purchase and sell.

 

[nhmoose]

They are also some of the best at polluting water.

Ben & Jerrys in Vermont is as bad

 

[Commodore Swab]

How was the proof test questionable? And who’s questioning it ?

didn’t you say you knew the barrel came from? And when it was made?

Where was it said a single example makes it unsafe?

I had asked to have mine proof tested by a private company in Florida , and they declined the request upon visual inspection something to do with how the back was connected to the barrel.

I suggest you go back to page 1 and take notes. Dave brought up some good points.

Something REALLY wrong here.

FIRST, the CIP does NOT have universally standardized proofing tests for black powder. Each CIP facility is free to establish their own procedure, to determine if that particular CIP facility will place its stamp(s) on the barrel. YET, the facebook page claims that the testing was done as universally specified by the CIP which it only is with modern cartridges, NOT black powder.

SECOND, I find it odd that they do not mention the proofing house that was used. Once CIP proofed, that proof is good in any CIP signatory nation. So that barrel was not necessarily proofed and failed in the country where the facebook page originates.

There is more to this story than we are being told. I wonder if the barrel information was provided second hand.

LD

I said the information should be there on the barrel and what little information we have identified it as not being built the same company in India. The proof house could have taken steps to identify the builder yet "couldnt". Anything can be blown up however it implied that this represents India quality. A "private company" in FL for proofing means little to nothing and is comparable to proofing yourself.

I believe there have been far more home done proof tests of Indian guns than any other.

 

[Aglukan]

I suggest you go back to page 1 and take notes. Dave brought up some good points.

I said the information should be there on the barrel and what little information we have identified it as not being built the same company in India. The proof house could have taken steps to identify the builder yet "couldnt". Anything can be blown up however it implied that this represents India quality. A "private company" in FL for proofing means little to nothing and is comparable to proofing yourself.

I believe there have been far more home done proof tests of Indian guns than any other.

I have no knowledge of how to do a proof test. Therefore i chose to go to a private company who has licenses and certifications that i do not.

I’m not an expert, so i choose others to do the expert things.

I want a gun i can trust to shoot, so i choose the expert to certify a test to make me trust what i have purchased.

You said you knew where the barrel came from, you quoted the region. I’m only asking because i have recently had this problem with what i own, there is very little information about what it is where it was made and what it is made of.

Do you agree that information is important ?

 

[Commodore Swab]

I have no knowledge of how to do a proof test. Therefore i chose to go to a private company who has licenses and certifications that i do not.

I’m not an expert, so i choose others to do the expert things.

I want a gun i can trust to shoot, so i choose the expert to certify a test to make me trust what i have purchased.

You said you knew where the barrel came from, you quoted the region. I’m only asking because i have recently had this problem with what i own, there is very little information about what it is where it was made and what it is made of.

Do you agree that information is important ?

What I posted regarding region ect was from a barrel in my possession. Rather than publish all the information that was on the barrel or look it up the proofing house left it incomplete and vague. They did offer enough information to identify it as having not been made or imported by the main companies.

Barrels have historically been made of various metals steel, brass, copper ect. If there is a US company with license and certs that proofs black powder guns that information could benefit many people. As it stands I don't know a US proof house that does that. Loyalist includes instructions on how to proof their guns. It is best to remove the barrel for proofing as tying to a tree or tire is an easy way to break a stock.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

A question on this and not to stir the pot....Are Indian made Guns and the metal they are made of made to a set of standards across their Industry of such?

 

[Aglukan]

What I posted regarding region ect was from a barrel in my possession. Rather than publish all the information that was on the barrel or look it up the proofing house left it incomplete and vague. They did offer enough information to identify it as having not been made or imported by the main companies.

Barrels have historically been made of various metals steel, brass, copper ect. If there is a US company with license and certs that proofs black powder guns that information could benefit many people. As it stands I don't know a US proof house that does that. Loyalist includes instructions on how to proof their guns. It is best to remove the barrel for proofing as tying to a tree or tire is an easy way to break a stock.

What information made you aware that it was not imported form a main company ? What is a main company ? Maybe they can’t release too much private information, this is possible.

I was referred by my gunsmith to a company that does private safety tests on guns, he also advised me to not self proof my own barrel. I showed him those instructions from loyal arms and he said it is extremely unwise and dangerous to do your own barrel tests. He suggest that a third party do the test because it is a guarantee of integrity, as he put it you proof test your own barrel because you want to be sure its safe to shoot and transfer but it is your barrel and you have an interest in saying its ok and would be more opportune to overlook certain things that someone else would not. i happen to agree with this, and chose did to not my own proofing test.

 

[Commodore Swab]

What information made you aware that it was not imported form a main company ? What is a main company ? Maybe they can’t release too much private information, this is possible.

If you go back to page 7. . .

An example of the markings under a barrel.

R.G.M.CO. UDAIPUR. INDIA
B/775. 11.4.11

Much like a serial number when you know what each means it will tell you about the barrel. What is offered is nothing more than "This was a .62 caliber smooth bore flintlock pistol made by R.A. in India"

Logic would say that this is a different and unknown manufacturer. Assuming this failure was legitimate (Im skeptical) to discredit different manufactures is nothing more than slander against those companies. Do what's right, identify the manufacturer and attack them, not the country of origin!

I did not mention the particular importer on the one I was using as an example. It is the same company loyalist and veteran uses. All they (proof house) offered as identification was "R.A." and the country of origin leaving much identification to be desired.

 

[Frontier's]

A question on this and not to stir the pot....Are Indian made Guns and the metal they are made of made to a set of standards across their Industry of such?

No one knows exactly what they are made of simply due to the fact they are sold as non firing props. It's like buying medicine in the 1800s, you have no clue what you're getting.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

No one knows exactly what they are made of simply due to the fact they are sold as non firing props. It's like buying medicine in the 1800s, you have no clue what you're getting.

A perfectly reasonable Answer. It could be some of the wariness of some not wanting to use them.

 

[Aglukan]

Confusing… you say it was an Indian barrel that was tested, and you now say you don’t know the country of origin, and desire much information.

I’ll just reach out to the gentlemen that did the test, I’m a member of his YouTube page.

 

[FlinterNick]

No one knows exactly what they are made of simply due to the fact they are sold as non firing props. It's like buying medicine in the 1800s, you have no clue what you're getting.

Could be any kind of steel from numerous sources.

Old Church Bells, sunken ships, Russian tanks, etc etc.

I’ve had many in my shop that are not magnetic when cool, leading me to believe it’s some type of stainless steel, but they’re not all the same.

 

[FlinterNick]

A question on this and not to stir the pot....Are Indian made Guns and the metal they are made of made to a set of standards across their Industry of such?

Simple answer…. NOPE

 

[Rudyard]

I had contacted a private company to do a proofed test of my Indian made Bess. They declined the request cited due to a lack of available information and they didnt like the visual inspection of the barrel.

Then they would seem a useless crowd ,what did they have to lose.? Rudyard

What I posted regarding region ect was from a barrel in my possession. Rather than publish all the information that was on the barrel or look it up the proofing house left it incomplete and vague. They did offer enough information to identify it as having not been made or imported by the main companies.

Barrels have historically been made of various metals steel, brass, copper ect. If there is a US company with license and certs that proofs black powder guns that information could benefit many people. As it stands I don't know a US proof house that does that. Loyalist includes instructions on how to proof their guns. It is best to remove the barrel for proofing as tying to a tree or tire is an easy way to break a stock.

I agree anything a bit suspect like galved seemed water pipe ,I prooved in a rabbit hole this was just for one copy of a Nigerian 'Dane' gun I made 'After' Jimmo Babatundi of Ikorudu Lorry park fame . in the Ogan River style. (IE" rough as bags" but warrented not to burst more than once' )Would I now go hunt Deer with it? . No whilst fit its still a smoothish bored gun & I have difficulty with the correct method of hanging onto these guns viz left hand pulling the trigger while right hand grasps the butt end holding it onto my fore arm .lest it should burst . I suppose if one was left handed then the reverse hold would apply. I just bowled a Bunny & left it at that & I was able to make the ramrod of a similar Galved number 8 wire that NZ & Nigeria are famed for . Ide had the flint lock many years but builders rubbish & a lump of Shedua a similar wood to what Jimmo used I combined or' Knocked up' to make this rare example . Will Mr Kibler tool up to produce these gems ? .Naaa I doubt it. But we cant ask Jimmo he got into hot water & took to the bush Ime told.
Rudyard's Ramblings

 

[FlinterNick]

A perfectly reasonable Answer. It could be some of the wariness of some not wanting to use them.

agree, very reasonable

 

[Coinneach]

I’m hoping you will also !

Im hoping that someone on the forum has a sister who looks like Dolly Parton and will offer her phone number !