India-made flintlocks

[Rudyard]

It is possible. It's also possible that it's a competitor. I used to import medieval armor from workshops in India and copying is rampant. Workers move from what workshop to another.

Been there done that & I do know where your comeing from. But what can we do ?

"Now it is not good for the Christian White to hussle the Arryan Brown,
For the Christian Riles .& the Arrian Smiles , & he whereth the Christian down.
And the end of the fight is a toombstone white, With the name of the late deceesed .
With an epitath drear ." A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East ",


Kipling of Course .If from the top of my head
Regards Rudyard

 

[dave_person]

Indian artizans CAN make good stuff but its all about the price between the workmen & the go between merchant he will peddle the poorest item at the highest profit the buyer will tollerate . While he gives the actual workmen the' knock back'. You pay peanuts you get Monkeys sort of thing so you get grades from' it will pass' to' NRA distgusting' quality .The workmen rarely speak English they struggle with all kinds of poor work shops . Its India or the India I knew when I was engaged in the tradeing in India in 1973 onward till I gave up on the effort.. .Given their lot even the top US makers could hardly be blamed for poor results . BUT to say the workmen are not fully capable is rather unfair, This asserted you will get levels of skill same as our country men will attain or be comfortable within the price range and market, .I have 'worked up 'lots of these guns to be regular 'fire risks', Reenactors used to chase me for them .Even Chuck Dixon bought one thinking it was my work .& it hung on his beams much to my ammusment .& my own Reenactor musket was a composite of broken rejects from three separate wrecks I changed common India Patts to a semblence of earlier private Purchase arms composit fore pipe , nice rounded sideplate much wood reshapeing new older style guard . They ALL stood UK proof .. Sydney does have a point .But I thought it only fair to give a wider picture of these guns and the part skilled enough Indian gun makers have to put up with . I only know of Loyalist Arms but though I never bought a gun from them we had other bussiness and know them for a dedicated & honest principaled Company .
Regards Rudyard

Champion of the under dog since I know what they had to put up with .

Hi,
Rudyard is completely correct. I've seen videos of workers making those guns and they work under very primitive conditions. They exhibit hand skills that put most of you to shame. However, the end results are products that vary widely in quality and almost certainly reflect the price consumers will pay. In fact, the wholesale buyers and their retail customers probably are the real causes of poor quality because they determine the price paid. I am critical of the India-made guns and the Italian ones as well but I admire those skilled Indian tradesman. My ire is focused at the middlemen who exploit their work. and the many buyers who expect the moon but won't pay for it. If I was seeking help, I would welcome any of those Indian tradesmen in my shop as apprentices because they would work hard and learn faster than most Americans. For what it is worth, the issue about barrel safety is a red herring. The main safety issue with India-made guns is the locks and their heat treatment and construction not the barrels.

dave

 

[Tumbledown]

I've been shooting black-powder now for 40 years and they used to say the Italian guns were crap nobody would touch them because they were considered inferior now the tide has changed and magically Italian guns are considered Superior well I'm not buying it I'll stick with the guns that I have whatever I shoot I enjoy and you can say all you want about Currie burners but I would never spend $7,000 on a custom Flintlock that was only worth $5,000 I do all my own Gunsmithing and wood work and I consider India guns to be like a 90% kit I've seen track of the Wolf guns come back with inferior fitting of metal Parts lock work in wood so you don't always get what you pay for

Really? Do we need to call them that here?

 

[user 49399]

Gee whiz! Y’all got me thinking I should sell my squirrel gun!

 

[Rock Home Isle]

Gee whiz! Y’all got me thinking I should sell my squirrel gun!View attachment 146229

That is a beautiful gun…wouldn’t you regret letting such a beauty go?

 

[user 49399]

That is a beautiful gun…wouldn’t you regret letting such a beauty go?

I would regret it. I’ve shot a lot of squirrels with it. It always works if I treat it right. But, doggone, it was made in India.

 

[Rock Home Isle]

I would regret it. I’ve shot a lot of squirrels with it. It always works if I treat it right. But, doggone, it was made in India.

In my life time, I’ve sold 6 guns…regretted selling everyone of them. Gave up the habit.
….that gun does not look like it is an India Made Gun…shhhhh, our secret

 

[user 49399]

Yeah. I couldn’t resist having a little fun. That gun ain’t going nowhere. Even though it was made in India, it is a good gun.

 

[Rock Home Isle]

Gee whiz! Y’all got me thinking I should sell my squirrel gun!View attachment 146229

Where did you get it…what importer? I love the look of that gun…

Here’s my TVM Fusil…yours looks just as slim and functional…

 

[user 49399]

I traded for it several years ago. I think it came from Veteran Arms.

 

[user 49399]

It’s the same gun I’m shooting in a thread I posted a while back called “Me and my true love”.

 

[user 49399]

Mine has that far away look. It looks better from far away. Up close you would see that the fit and finish is not up to par with TVM, Kibler, Chambers or a lot of other fine guns. But, it was inexpensive, it works fine and the less than perfect fit and finish makes it look like an old gun. I

 

[sturmkatze]

My problem with India guns is the people who sell them clearly state they are for display or movie props only. Yes I know some of them give you info on how to make them into a functioning gun, but if you read the FINE PRINT they clearly state they take no responsibility for any modification that you do to make it a functioning firearm.

Because... India has really strict gin control laws and they have to do this to get around them. Period.

 

[toot]

Dear Toot . Ime fairly sure some native American Indian gun burst.for various reasons but All British guns where proofed so where unlikley to fail but no accounting for user errors Then as now.
Regards Rudyard

Rudyard, thanks for the reply.

 

[toot]

I would regret it. I’ve shot a lot of squirrels with it. It always works if I treat it right. But, doggone, it was made in India.

you got it, paid for it, so keep it. I did not know that they made squirrel caliber guns? is it a 32-or a 36 CAL, riffled? as stated it is a beauty!!

 

[toot]

Like anything it depends on whose buying it.

I know a little more detail about some historical firearms than someone who does not. So, when I see an Indian Made Brown Bess, Or Charleville or Baker Rifle all i really see is a mess.

Incorrect shaping of the entire gun and its components.

Incorrect wood, Teak and South Asian Rosewood is just way too hard and closed grained for gunstocks.

Locks often are made poorly and require tuning and reworking to shape the parts.

DOM (drawn over mandrel) tubing is not a type of barrel design I think one should not consider of the highest quality, for a few reasons. it’s basically a sheet of steel hammered into a tube and then welded. The welding that closes the seam needs to be done to perfection or the gun could fail at the breech or at the muzzle. While the originals were made this way, they were done with extensive proof testing, as there was an actual failure rate, not all barrels made it to the field. And on Indian guns….. the vent holes are not even drilled.

don,t like them just pass on them. so simple. jmho.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

Agree in fact I found one of the makers on the internet at no other place but YouTube and it was the same manufacturer who made my flintlocks from military heritage if you go on YouTube it's under fabulous India firearm reproduction or you can just search YouTube as India Flintlock and it will come up I also included a report from HP white an industry leader now-defunct that was specializing in Metallurgy testing if you read the report you'll see the metal used is a high-grade steel equal to that of us manufacturers as well as European manufacturers not to say the India guns aren't Rough Around the Edges which they are I have addressed this in previous remarks but they are strong and well made and will hold up well under the same conditions that pedersoli Uber D and many of the European manufacturers like cva Traditions etc etc will

People forget that India was making weapons before the USA existed!

 

[Snake Pleskin]

Really? Do we need to call them that here?

Yes, and for decades Detroit made cars that were basic garbage, poor workmanship, and fell apart. Made in USA guarantees nothing.

 

[FlinterNick]

People forget that India was making weapons before the USA existed!

A gun is a product that you purchase, as a consumer you determine what you consider is bad product and you make your informed purchase.

As toot said, you dont like pass it up.

 

[FlinterNick]

Yes, and for decades Detroit made cars that were basic garbage, poor workmanship, and fell apart. Made in USA guarantees nothing.

I don’t think the argument is that American made is better, its that custom made is better. Whether its an American, German, Argentinian, or East Indian or Native American. Makes no difference. Custom work is a work of art

If like some Detroit made cars, Indian muskets are often EXPENSIVE to own because of their lack of quality detail and lack of available replacement parts.