Bub, my dealings with MVTC have been great. I love my Dragoon. It's finished a bit rough, but it works great, and is very solid. Aside from being really nice folks, it should also be taken into consideration that Pete and Wendy (owners of MVTC) are also avid reenactors. They actually go and hang out with the folks they sell their guns to! These aren't just people who sell supplies to reenactors/shooters, they do it themselves. This was the whole point in starting MVTC, to provide decent quality, functional flintlocks to folks who couldn't afford to spend $1000 or more on the more expensive European imports or semi-custom guns. My point is that these folks have a vested interest in providing quality low-cost guns to their fellow blackpowder enthusiasts. I have recommended them to many folks, without hesitation. They're good people. :thumbsup:
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Indian muskets?
- Thread starter Musketeer
- Start date
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I haven't had much luck with MVTC as far as getting info. I sent them an email last week requesting price info on a gun I read an article about and I have yet to hear from them.
However, I wouldn't mind having a blundernbuss like the one they have advertised on their site.
However, I wouldn't mind having a blundernbuss like the one they have advertised on their site.
Sometimes they are gone for a few day to rondys and such. They should answer your e-mail as soon as they get it. I think it says something on their sight about sometimes being slow to reply because of this.
I e mailed them last week. It took a couple of days for them to get back to me as they are currently relocating to New Hampshire and are traveling back and forth. At any rate, I ordered one of the "Bess" carbines that was written up in the last issue of Backwoods magazine. They told me delivery would be within 3 weeks.
Thanks for the update. Didn't know they were moving. I would like to get one of the Bess's someday. I may decide to sell my .20 N.W. Tradegun and buy one of them.
militaryheritage
Pilgrim
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2004
- Messages
- 3
- Reaction score
- 0
Daryl,
I hate the fact I have to post this message but I humbly feel some of the facts have been lost in this case.
Many on this thread have asked how we handled your greivance. Well here are the facts.
1. PURCHASE: You contacted us wanting to purchase a sea service musket. Because you stated that you had a limited income (due to a private issue), but wanted to get involved in the Black powder muzzleloading hobby like your brother. I wanted to help so I gave you a sizable discount on your musket.
2. ALTERING MUSKET: When you received it you were very happy. You then significantly altered the musket: cut down the barrel, brazed a sight, blued the barrel, and filed/altered the breech plug.
3. PROBLEM: After firing it numerous times you discovered fouling in the threads and report it to me and the world. I asked if you altering the breech had anything to do with it... a question you were quite offended at. So I took it at your word it was the thread gap was the issue. Your concern was the fouling and gap would eventually allow gases to vent out the breech over time.
4. EXCHANGE/REFUND: We immediately offered a refund upon its return, even though you had significantly altered the piece beyond repair (costing us hundreds of dollars). HOWEVER instead of a refund you asked for ANOTHER MORE EXPENSIVE musket as an exchange! (1728 French Musket) Considering the original deep discount, it would be been at a significant loss if we did this. Therefore we refunded your payment. In fact we also refunded the shipping as well which is against our return policy.
5. INSPECTION: We then inspected our existing stock and did not find any with thread gaps. We then contacted the Manufacturer (we being a vendor) of the issue and they attempted to discover what happened and analyze how to improve checks. However of the hundreds of muskets we have sold they issue appears is unique to this musket alone.
6. TESTING/PROOFING: In addition we wanted to test your theory about venting gases out the breech. I handed it over to someone to test it with more experience than me. I apologize for the confusion on how many grains would be used in testing this thread gap issue. I deal with thousands of clients a year, and we sell thousands of products including hundreds of muskets annually. I was not playing any "game" or purposefully misleading as you suggest. I simply forgot the total of grains I said we would test it with.
7. RESULTS: We tested it using the old British proofing standard of firing with double load (170gr.) and double patched ball. This was done a number of times, then the barrel was left for four months to allow any fouling to work. The barrel was fired again a number of times recently in the same way. There has been no issue with the breech yet, even under these elevated conditions. We intend on leaving it for another 6 months and try again.
8. IMFORMED YOU: I informed you yesterday of the results so far and you responded by suggesting the person who tested it didn't know what he was doing... the old British proofing standard wasn't good enough... that I misled you on the grains being used, and so on. I explained to you, we are not testing the PSI strength of the metal. That was not the issue. We are testing to see whether the fouling thread gap could cause leakage of pressure and firing it at this amount over the period of a year or so should provide answers. Your tone concerned me and that is when I discovered this message thread.
Daryl. After we did not approve an exchange for a more expensive musket you seem to go from speaking highly about many of the good qualities of the musket to "even the swivel screws" are not good enough. On reading your posts I cannot help but feel you view your credability somehow attached to this issue and that you may have lost your objectivity over the matter. You had a concern and we are testing it. That's it. That all.
MEMBERS of the Muzzleloader Message Board,
As a vendor I do not know what more we could have done in this case:
We discounted the item in the first place on compassionate grounds.
We immediately refunded the client everything even though the piece was significantly altered.
We took action by notifying the manufacturer.
We did not find the issue was systemic in our inventory.
We have done a number of tests based on a common proofing standard to address Daryl's original concern and the breech has not caused problems yet even though it is being fired well beyond normal use.
Have we handled this all wrong? I know one thing the road to hell is certainly paved with good intentions.
Daryl. I know you will be very angry when you read this post, which I am sorry, but I had to present our perspective on this issue since more questions have been raised in this message thread, than answered. I have great respect for you and I am not trying to challenge you to some sort of message duel. That said I am sure I will feel your message wrath and we will be portrayed as the no-nothing bad guys.
Sincerely,
Robert
MilitaryHeritage.com[url] Militaryheritage.com[/url]
I hate the fact I have to post this message but I humbly feel some of the facts have been lost in this case.
Many on this thread have asked how we handled your greivance. Well here are the facts.
1. PURCHASE: You contacted us wanting to purchase a sea service musket. Because you stated that you had a limited income (due to a private issue), but wanted to get involved in the Black powder muzzleloading hobby like your brother. I wanted to help so I gave you a sizable discount on your musket.
2. ALTERING MUSKET: When you received it you were very happy. You then significantly altered the musket: cut down the barrel, brazed a sight, blued the barrel, and filed/altered the breech plug.
3. PROBLEM: After firing it numerous times you discovered fouling in the threads and report it to me and the world. I asked if you altering the breech had anything to do with it... a question you were quite offended at. So I took it at your word it was the thread gap was the issue. Your concern was the fouling and gap would eventually allow gases to vent out the breech over time.
4. EXCHANGE/REFUND: We immediately offered a refund upon its return, even though you had significantly altered the piece beyond repair (costing us hundreds of dollars). HOWEVER instead of a refund you asked for ANOTHER MORE EXPENSIVE musket as an exchange! (1728 French Musket) Considering the original deep discount, it would be been at a significant loss if we did this. Therefore we refunded your payment. In fact we also refunded the shipping as well which is against our return policy.
5. INSPECTION: We then inspected our existing stock and did not find any with thread gaps. We then contacted the Manufacturer (we being a vendor) of the issue and they attempted to discover what happened and analyze how to improve checks. However of the hundreds of muskets we have sold they issue appears is unique to this musket alone.
6. TESTING/PROOFING: In addition we wanted to test your theory about venting gases out the breech. I handed it over to someone to test it with more experience than me. I apologize for the confusion on how many grains would be used in testing this thread gap issue. I deal with thousands of clients a year, and we sell thousands of products including hundreds of muskets annually. I was not playing any "game" or purposefully misleading as you suggest. I simply forgot the total of grains I said we would test it with.
7. RESULTS: We tested it using the old British proofing standard of firing with double load (170gr.) and double patched ball. This was done a number of times, then the barrel was left for four months to allow any fouling to work. The barrel was fired again a number of times recently in the same way. There has been no issue with the breech yet, even under these elevated conditions. We intend on leaving it for another 6 months and try again.
8. IMFORMED YOU: I informed you yesterday of the results so far and you responded by suggesting the person who tested it didn't know what he was doing... the old British proofing standard wasn't good enough... that I misled you on the grains being used, and so on. I explained to you, we are not testing the PSI strength of the metal. That was not the issue. We are testing to see whether the fouling thread gap could cause leakage of pressure and firing it at this amount over the period of a year or so should provide answers. Your tone concerned me and that is when I discovered this message thread.
Daryl. After we did not approve an exchange for a more expensive musket you seem to go from speaking highly about many of the good qualities of the musket to "even the swivel screws" are not good enough. On reading your posts I cannot help but feel you view your credability somehow attached to this issue and that you may have lost your objectivity over the matter. You had a concern and we are testing it. That's it. That all.
MEMBERS of the Muzzleloader Message Board,
As a vendor I do not know what more we could have done in this case:
We discounted the item in the first place on compassionate grounds.
We immediately refunded the client everything even though the piece was significantly altered.
We took action by notifying the manufacturer.
We did not find the issue was systemic in our inventory.
We have done a number of tests based on a common proofing standard to address Daryl's original concern and the breech has not caused problems yet even though it is being fired well beyond normal use.
Have we handled this all wrong? I know one thing the road to hell is certainly paved with good intentions.
Daryl. I know you will be very angry when you read this post, which I am sorry, but I had to present our perspective on this issue since more questions have been raised in this message thread, than answered. I have great respect for you and I am not trying to challenge you to some sort of message duel. That said I am sure I will feel your message wrath and we will be portrayed as the no-nothing bad guys.
Sincerely,
Robert
MilitaryHeritage.com[url] Militaryheritage.com[/url]
Last edited by a moderator:
Yes, thank you.
And thank you for producing reproductions of our historical firelocks.
And thank you for producing reproductions of our historical firelocks.
Your company seems to be some kind of oddity. I commend you on your attempt to please an apparenty unreasonable customer. This kind of service is certainly not the norm. In my opinion you certainly exceeded all reasonable expectations to honor your obligations as a vendor.
I hope that all who read what was previously posted here will read your response and allow you the oppotunity to present your side of the story. I am sure that anyone reading your post will disregard the negative opinions that was advanced by just one of your many customers.
THANK YOU FOR THE SERVICE YOU PROVIDE TO THE BLACK POWDER SHOOTING COMMUNITY IN GENERAL AND TO RE-ENACTORS SPECIFICALLY
I hope that all who read what was previously posted here will read your response and allow you the oppotunity to present your side of the story. I am sure that anyone reading your post will disregard the negative opinions that was advanced by just one of your many customers.
THANK YOU FOR THE SERVICE YOU PROVIDE TO THE BLACK POWDER SHOOTING COMMUNITY IN GENERAL AND TO RE-ENACTORS SPECIFICALLY
davidthered
40 Cal.
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2004
- Messages
- 303
- Reaction score
- 0
Robert, I feel you went over and above the call on this one. You seem genuinely concerned, I don't know what more one could do!
To take back an item that had been drastically altered is UNHEARD of!!
I am sorry that I too, got caught up in the posts, and from this point on, will only sing your praise.
I have a friend with one of your long lands, and it fires everytime, and they love it!
:redthumb:
To take back an item that had been drastically altered is UNHEARD of!!
I am sorry that I too, got caught up in the posts, and from this point on, will only sing your praise.
I have a friend with one of your long lands, and it fires everytime, and they love it!
:redthumb:
rifleshooter2
45 Cal.
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2004
- Messages
- 538
- Reaction score
- 5
Well I was debating getting a Brown Bess from Military Heritage but after this response Its definate as soon as I save up the cash I'll be ordering one. I like someone that stands by their product
Andy.
Andy.
Guest
I think some are be'n a "bit rough" on Daryl, he did offer a lot of things of interest. Everone has ther own "flaws" to some extent, and we jest had an opportunity to see Daryl's.
Let's quit pick'n on the guy, lest we stray from be'n "perfect" our ownselves!! :imo: :m2c:
YMHS
rollingb
Let's quit pick'n on the guy, lest we stray from be'n "perfect" our ownselves!! :imo: :m2c:
YMHS
rollingb
Russ T Frizzen
70 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2004
- Messages
- 5,007
- Reaction score
- 423
Did I miss something? Why did Daryl leave?
Guest
I'm not sure.
YMHS
rollingb
YMHS
rollingb
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