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Inexpensive flintlocks...

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I bought a nice Italian made Flinter for my 7 yr old son that is .44 cal and shoots nicely, accurate and reliable for $300 + shipping.
Now for me, I want Big Boy Toys and spend an average of $1500-$3000 for a Really nice Flintlock custom gun.
Those prices are cheap, considering I once spent $30,000 for an M60E3 Machinegun!
 
AZ Longrifle said:
considering I once spent $30,000 for an M60E3 Machinegun!
free-sad-smileys-4301.gif
 
"Now I just gotta get details on what got put on layaway. It was apparently one that my dad was eyeing up before.."

Sounds like some fine times are in the future for your father and you, spend the time with him now and this is a greatway to do it, I have been fortunate enough to share over 40 years of frontstuffing with my dad, good stuff for building memories, glad it has worked out for you and your brother. Keep the forum posted on how he takes to it.
 
ebiggs said:
“And no Mr. Biggs, my guns don't need "tweaked". You'll have to sight them in, but they work exceptionally well when you receive them, and that's mainly due to the best barrels and locks on the market and 30 years of building experience.”

I have no doubt what so ever your rifles are top notch. Works of art is more closely accurate. My meaning was when you buy cheap guns you will probably need to “tweak” to get to a decent shootable level.
I can also so appreciate your guns have already received the (30 years of building experience) “tweaking” by you.
And that is one reason they are so valued by everyone.
I apologize if I have offended you.
But fact of the mater is Mike Brooks custom rifles are not for everyone.
It would one thing if the fit of the inletting and the degree of finish were the only difference. Unfortunately this is not the case.
It would be different if the designs were such that the parts would simply assemble into a safe firearm after machining and finishing as is possible with many modern designs, a 1911 Colt for example.
But 18th and 19th century guns are different they all require more hand work.
30 odd years ago a man bought a new import 100 dollar (plus or minus 20 bucks) percussion rifle at a sports shop about 60 miles east of here. This would be a 300-500 dollar gun today.
It misfired a lot when he was shooting so he brought it to one of the local ML gunsmiths (there were several here then) to be examined.
On the side of the barrel it had a snail shaped drum for a nipple seat. The gunsmith decided to remove this first.
He turned it about 1/4 turn and it FELL OUT.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to build a good sidelock gun today for 300-400 bucks. Its actually impossible to build one for 1000 unless SHORT CUTS ARE TAKEN.
These are generally where time or skill is needed.
Breeching barrels to include anything related to ignition, takes time and skill if done right. So does lock tuning. So these are immediately suspect. These are also the most likely to cause injury or death.
Proper stock shaping and inletting also require skill and knowledge.
HOWEVER. Sloppy inletting of the buttplate is not likely to cause death or injury.
Sloppy assembly of breech components to the barrel very well might.
A lock with a poorly tuned fly and/or mushy springs and/or tumbler notches that don't match the sear nose can be deadly.

It never ceases to amaze me that people who probably will not allow their kids to ride in a vehicle without a seat belt will buy the cheapest ML they can find and give it to their kids to use.

Dan
 
goon--yes, please keep us informed on what you guys bought for your dad and what if anything you are going to do with it before you present it!
 
Would it be poosible for you to give me a list of poor, cheaply made (unsafe) flintlocks? I am surely missing something.
Possibly, Mr. Brooks could add his also.
 
ebiggs said:
Would it be poosible for you to give me a list of poor, cheaply made (unsafe) flintlocks? I am surely missing something.
Possibly, Mr. Brooks could add his also.
That would be very helpful. Kind of a Consumer Reports "Don't Buy" list. :thumbsup:
 
my poorly made cheap traditions flintlock has a life time warranty, whats a custom made flintlock have as far as warranty?
 
Mine too! I suspect we will not get an answer to my question. But if they were really serious they would give me a list because I have my sons and grandchildren around. They want to shoot too!
 
Kentuckywindage said:
my poorly made cheap traditions flintlock has a life time warranty, whats a custom made flintlock have as far as warranty?


Do you really want a gun that needs a lifetime guarantee? It's kinda like the automobile salesman who is proud of the fact that the dealership he works for has 24 hour service facility. Do you really want to buy a car that needs 24 hour service? :doh: :stir:

God bless
 
Uh oh... and the poor thread starter (goon) just wanted to know what inexpensive flintlock to buy his dear ole dad!

Can we go back to that?

:grin: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 
ebiggs said:
Yes you can beat $468 to $480 for a nice gun!

If you want to go the route of finding a used gun or some parts guns, this is what is possible. I decided to go to 54 cal instead of my current 50 cal rifles. I have about $400 in this gun with the barrel the hardest item to find. This one was $200 and is in unfired condition. Plus this is truly a $400 gun because there isn’t even any sales tax when purchasing parts from individuals. It is as easy or difficult as you want to make it. I have a cabinet shop and many years ago I switched exclusively to Minwax products. So this is possible by anyone with the local hardware store down the street. The stock was not in good shape nor was the brass. I stripped and sanded the wood and stained it with Minwax Mahogany stain and three coats of Minwax Tung Oil. I polished the brass to a mirror shine with a buffing wheel and red rouge. On this gun I applied satin polyurethane to the brass instead of my usual high gloss. The lock was and old style so I got a new cock from TC but the frizzen is sparking fine so I left it until it quits. This gun shoots fine and is the 15th one I have completed.

IMG_1962.jpg


IMG_1963.jpg


IMG_1966.jpg


IMG_1965.jpg


IMG_1967.jpg


Hi ebiggs,

congrats to this nice T/C flinter Hawken. I was able to get such a rifle as a kitgun at the classified ads. How are you confident with the sparking of the lock?

Regards from Germany!


Kirrmeister
 
sniper68 said:
AZ Longrifle said:
considering I once spent $30,000 for an M60E3 Machinegun!
free-sad-smileys-4301.gif
I know...my "Mid-Life Crisis" M.G.!
My wife would rather that then a Boat that attracts girls on the beach or a European Sports Car in red.
I hardly shoot it anymore with the ammo costs.
But, I'm sure enjoying my Flintlocks! :thumbsup:

Ebiggs, That is a beauty of a rifle!
 
ebiggs said:
Mine too! I suspect we will not get an answer to my question. But if they were really serious they would give me a list because I have my sons and grandchildren around. They want to shoot too!
It's not up to me to supply you with a list of anything just because you snap your fingers, and I don't care whether your kids and grand kids shoot or not. :wink: Cantankerous fella ain't I? :haha:
Buy American made, there's a god place to start. :v
 
Turns out that the muzzleloader my brother put on layaway was a CVA Bobcat .50 caliber Percussion.

Before the reactions come in...
My dad had one before and loved it. It was cheap but he shot it an awful lot and had a lot of fun with it. Had to sell it to raise money for something else and he's missed it ever since.
So when my brother had my dad in the shop and he started eyeing that rifle up... obvious conclusion.
 
Fortunately, most of the real cheapo crapola was removed from the market years ago simply by consumers buying better stuff.

However, just perusing the gun auctions in the past week, I see that some of the old somewhat dangerous stuff keeps surfacing.

There was a 68 cal muzzleloader with a three piece barrel sold years ago. The first 10 inches were octagon and the round portion of the barrel was screwed into that. Saw one a few weeks ago on a gun auction site. Another winner was the Tower pistols sold years ago. They were sold as display guns, I think they had stained pine stocks. They are surfacing on the auction sites as well under Black powder guns. I really hope that no one puts a hardened frizzen on one and loads it up.

The store I worked at outside Phila sold several dozen of each of those guns back in 1977. The long guns were recalled.

I had a cheapo hawken kit made in Spain and sold I think under the name Markwell or Markham arms. The interior lock parts weren't hardened properly and wore out on the fifth or sixth shot.

Some Folks say that CVA and Traditions are low quality. They should have seen the manure that was sold back in the 1970's. Even in the early days, some of the CVA guns didn't have great parts, but they improved substantially by the mid 1970's.
 
Actually, I am not surprised you don’t want to list any. I believe my TCs are American made. BTW, not only are you cantankerous you aren’t a very good salesman either.
 
"Hi ebiggs,

congrats to this nice T/C flinter Hawken. I was able to get such a rifle as a kitgun at the classified ads. How are you confident with the sparking of the lock?

Regards from Germany!


Kirrmeister"

Thank you very much; I am pleased with how this one turned out.
This gun has an early TC lock on it, which was not anything to brag about.
I got one of the redesigned hammer cocks for it and put it on. The frizzen sparks well as is, so I didn’t replace it, yet. I am sure I will but not until it decides to stop sparking.

Does the gun you got have an old style lock? This is what a new style looks like.

IMG_3846.jpg


If you don’t have this lock, TC will probably replace it for you free of charge. Also if you happen to have a Lyman GPR, the TC cock can make a big difference in its performance, too.

At any rate I believe Mr. Goon has ample choices to make a grand gift for his father.
 
goon said:
Honestly, $300ish is my budget. It's kind of a moot point because my brother put a muzzleloader on layaway for Dad today (we're splitting it for his birthday present). I told him the usual things to check and to make sure the lock worked properly and sparked well - plus he's been buying guns as long as I have so I mostly trust his judgement.

But yeah, I get the point about how experience can play a huge role in making something from nothing. But I do have enough know how to sand down a scratched up stock and refinish it, maybe make some small mechanical repairs. Never fixed a muzzleloader but I've done some other home gunsmithing repairs.

Now I just gotta get details on what got put on layaway. It was apparently one that my dad was eyeing up before...

You can't keep me in the dark especially after the heat I've taken. What did you and your brother finally decide on?
 
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