inlines regulated to regular deer season

I laugh when I see all you guys bitching about traditional, inline, scoped or not etc. I'll be the first to say I got into muzzleloading just to put another deer in the freezer and extend my time with mother nature. I just got a new mildot 2X10 power scope for my inline. I will happily hunt with one of you traditional guys.
This could go on and on. Set up a season for those who shoot a 30-30 with open sites, med. power guns with no more than a 4 power scope, mag. guns with big ass scopes, and than the 1000y club and further.

 

[Zonie]

Wal, jus as Ah thout. This thin is goin nowhare faster than a bat after a bee bug.
Ah's seen it on this hear site, an Ah's seen it on tother sites.
Nothin ever coms outter it cept a lot o hollerin an pointin an rankled feelins.
Taint no ones fault. That's jus the way it are.

Soooooooo...Ah'm a votin fer ta put it ta bed an hoping it don't wake up fer another yar or more so's we kan get back ta talkin bout shootin tree rats an deer an cayotes an elks an flys an damn near anythin else that we'r a mind to (ceptin each other). Thats what Ah says!!

 

I'll be the first to say I got into muzzleloading just to put another deer in the freezer and extend my time with mother nature. I just got a new mildot 2X10 power scope for my inline.

Thanks, yore honesty is refresh'n 'cause you state the reason you started use'n a modern inline.

How many years you been hunt'n with it?
Would you use it instead of a centerfire in the "regular season"?
Have you ever owned a traditional muzzleloader?
If "not" why did you choose to buy an inline 'stead of a traditional muzzleloader?
Do you consider both, the inline and traditional, as basicly the same muzzleloaders?
What's yore maximum range fer deer, use'n a scope? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

Right-on, Musketman - Our new season is for primitive weapons, bows as well as muzzleloaders with: outside hammers, iron sights only and patched round ball.
Daryl

Daryl,.... If you don't mind me ask'n, what year was the "original" muzzleloader season first introduced in yore area?? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

'Zonie,.... You are absolutely correct!!

This argument has been go'n on ever since the "introduction of inlines", and it'll probly "go on" fer'a nuther 20 years!! :haha: :haha:

Funny thing is,..... I cain't remember "what" we use'ta argue 'bout, 'fore the first modified-centerfire made it's "appearance" on our sacred-ground!!

...... or,.. maybe ther warn't no "arguement" 'tall back then!!(least thet's how I remember the early years!!) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif :haha: :winking: ::

 

That's be around 1980, I think, prior to anyone even thinking of putting a Leupold on one. Actually, the guy who got me to go on my first hunt, was the guy to introduce his other friends into putting scopes on their side hammer rifles. The game branch didn't like it one bit and they told us it was against the "Flavour" of the hunt sthey helped to set up.
: This scope-toten guy also helped us to get the others into learning how to use patched RB's instead of the maxiballs due to the # of lost wounded moose.
: Keith (same guy) still hunts with his .75 rifle, but without the scope, nowadays. He liked it to help thread a ball through the willow, but after I shot one through about 30 yds. of willow without deflection, he figured his larger ball had at least the same chance which proved itself on many occasions.

Daryl

 

Daryl,.... Down here, the early-80's was when some fellas was put'n scopes on ther TC Hawkens.('cause of the "advertise'n" 'bout conical bullets!)
A few years later, after the inlines started make'n ther appearance I didn't hear much 'bout scopes on TC's anymore!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

So the "flavour" of the season you mention, was basicly thet of "traditional" muzzleloaders??

..... and, now once agin,... you have a "new" season for the more traditional muzzleloaders?? (kind'a sounds as tho the inline industry must'a done some "lobby'n" to git changes made to yore "original" muzzleloader season!!) ::

 

Harrrrrrr-bawwwwwwwwww-haww. :haha:
leadball got this thing stirred up and this time I can't get the blame for it!
Just as a matter of interesting note, I well remember ohio's first "primitive" weapons seasons. Traditional muzzle gun cranks were THE ONES responsible for introducing legistlation to permit "special" primitive weapons seasons.
Ther were NO in-lines available then. The only factory built muzzle laoders were those introduced by Navy Arms, mainly the Zouave .58 and other replicas, then CVA and T/C came along with factory made cappers and rock locks.
Pa. only recently relaxed the law permitting only FLINTLOCKS to be used in special muzzle loader seasons. You can now use in-lines in Pa.
I was a cap lock shooter untill in-lines came out, then I switched to in-lines for a while.
Then I found these talk boards and got thourougly corrupted by birrddog6, rollingb and others. Dagnabit, I just got a smoothie drop in .62 for an old Renegade of mine. :curse:
Now I own period correct rock locks. ::
I have been hoplessly corrupted.
My Black Diamond T/C in-line wears a sling, and 3X9 Leupold.
It's around the house somewhere....or did I use it for a tomatto stake last year?
Anyway. I hunt with a couple friend that use in-lines and that's o.k. by me. They even shoot crossbows. That's o.k. too.
It gets poeple buying hunting licenses and gets 'em out huntin' where they should be.
Just don't ever forget that MOST primitive weapons seasons were lobbied for by traditionlists.
Besides, in-liners can get corrupted just like I did. ::

 

Just as a matter of interesting note, I well remember ohio's first "primitive" weapons seasons. Traditional muzzle gun cranks were THE ONES responsible for introducing legistlation to permit "special" primitive weapons seasons.
Ther were NO in-lines available then. The only factory built muzzle laoders were those introduced by Navy Arms, mainly the Zouave .58 and other replicas, then CVA and T/C came along with factory made cappers and rock locks.

Hey Maxi,.... I bet if enuff of us "old farts" from different states, would post our "early years" of hunt'n or lobby'n fer our state's muzzleloader-seasons, it'd become obvious thet "most" muzzleloader-seasons "NOW enjoyed" by EVERBUDDY,..... were established before modern inlines were introduced!! ::

"First come,.. first served"!! Don't seem to mean much, to the late bloomers.
I don't care "what" anybuddy hunts with, but it makes me wunner if maybe some of these fellas would insist on use'n football "rules" when play'n basketball,... instead of put'n out the effort like some of us,... to git our "own" game go'n!!

Heck!!.. I could even welcome the modern-inline into this "game" if they'ed quit try'n to make "centerfires" out'a ther muzzleloaders!!

After all,.... these muzzleloader seasons were established because of the "DIFFERENCE" 'tween traditional muzzleloader's, ballistics, sometimes un-reliable ignition, limited range, and the limitations of blackpowder,.... as compared to, smokeless powder, jacketed bullets, 100% reliable ignition, and the extended range, of centerfires!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I "well remember" when yore innerest switched from inlines over to more authentic traditional muzzleloaders,... I have hope to, thet others will also come to realize, how a "good traditional" muzzleloader can grip a hunter's "soul" with it's beauty and history!! :applause:

When the "differences" of muzzleloaders and centerfires are no longer apparent to the "powers-thet-be",..... those "powers" will surely do away with the "different/seperate/special" muzzleloader seasons!! ::

Hopefully some of these fella's inlines will be "collector's items" by then, so they can re-coup some of ther money and buy traditional muzzleloaders to start the "primitive seasons" all over agin!! ::

 

rollingb:
You bring up a really good point. I'd be willing to bet that MOST every State that established the "special" seasons for muzzle loaders was well before the in-line was hatched.
I still refuse to knock in-line users. Everybody's allowed to use what's legal, BUT, in-line people should bear in mind that the ONLY black powder arms available when these special hunts started were traditional, or at least traditional looking.
I too agree that the in-line industry is trying to make the modern in-line match ar at least come close to the performance of a modern cartridge arm.
That's the sore point with me.
A modern muzzle loader that uses scopes, rubber recoil pads, jacket ammo, AND smokeless powder is merely a poor excuse for a muzzle loader, and a real stretch of the imagination to call the thing a muzzle loader.
And you are right about the reason for the special seasons was precisly the DIFFERNCE between a modern arm and the tarditional muzzle loader.
Another strong point you make is the T R A D I T I O N.
It's about tradition. Heritage. Like Thanksgiving is a traditional holiday to HONOR our forefathers and to give thanks for what we have by praticing these traditions.
There is no beauty and grace in any in-line.
Aw common guys. What the heck is purddy about a plastic stock and a hybrid bolt action front stuffer?
Nothing, absolutely nothing, is a gracefull as a period correct hand made rifle.
No I don't advocate that everyone go out and spend a grand or more on a fine handbuilt long rifle, BUT the truth is many of these in-lines with quality scopes will cost 600 bucks or more. So a person that appreciates traditional values could easily afford a good custom rifle with just a bit of thinking and effort.
If I had the sense to sell off my Lymans and T/C's I could have had a custom or semi custom flinter years ago.
By the way, you really didn't corrupt me, that's a good natured joke on my part. What you really did was teach me some VALUES, remember those things, like a work ethic? Ideals that are fast disappearing.
My young son will inherit my birddog6 built flinters, and hopefully some values as well.
In-lines have their place, I just don't know what that place is.
I hope that in-line people will get more interested in the traditional values that go with using a traditional looking rifle.
I just don't see the sense in sniping a deer at 250 yards. Now getting up to 50 yards with an open sighted roundball shooter and you've done something.
I guess that's why I also use a bow. I get close and make the shot count.
I also hunt with a revolver. No not a sawed off 14" barreled scoped excuse for a handgun, a stock open sighted revolver.
Holy crap that's enough, even I'm getting tired of hearing me!
:bull: :bull: :haha: :haha:

 

"I also never mentioned "finished" rifles,."
=========================================================

Isn't it a little unfair to throw-in a GPR kit price when Cabelas doesn't sell kits?? This is not how you attempt to gain an upper edge in "yes & no/do & don't" discussions.

Naturally, all ML/BP special seasons were born prior to the inline? Had inline popularity rose first, then inline special seasons would of came before sidelocks... DUH!

There is no argument here except from a few traditional bp/ml shooters who are inline-biased. You need to discuss ML/BP separation of hunting priviledges with your state & local wildlife divisions and your political leaders. You are barking up the wrong tree here. Showing snarling teeth gets you nowhere in the friendship arena inside these forums.

 

[Ohio Joe]

Cabelas does sell GPR kits. They may not be advertised in their catalog, but if you ask them and they're worth their salt (old expression), they can get them and ship them right to your home.

 

rollingb, been hunting with the inline for 4 years and I would use it in the regular season if needed. Never used a traditional muzzleloader, never wanted one. Got the inline because they are easyer to use and clean, drilled and taped for a scope, designed for saboted bullets and large loads of "fake" BP, use 209 primers. I have never used a non inline so can't compair them, but a good traditional and a non scoped inline shooting the same bullet should shoot about the same. I shoot targets out to 250 yards with a 300g SST sabot, 100g 777, 209 primers. Have shot one deer at just over 200y. Zeroed at 150y, 3.5" high at 75-100y, 3.5" low at 175y, 8" low at 200y, 14" low at 225y, and 22" low at 250y. Have not used the mildot scope yet but it should make holdovers easyer on lazered game.

 

[mowolf]

Well fellows, I will wiegh in on the side of the traditionalists. However, if people want to use an inline that is their right until and unless the laws of man change. I use traditional firarms for most of my hunting (.45 Invesarmt hawkin, TC hawkin in .50, Kentucky Pistol in .50, and a 12 ga CVA Shotgun, with that said, some would consider each and every one as "Non" traditional, why? All are caplocks. Use rb's in the .45 and conicals in the TC cause that's what they like. Sometimes I hunts from a tree and sometimes I don't, just depends on how I feel and how windy, raining or whatever it is that day. I use my MLs in both the regular firearms season and the BP season. Just because I like shooting them. I started using a ML when I got tired of the crowds and using a slug gun in Iowa. Seemed that if I had to use an open sighted shotgun with limited range I should use something I could build myself and enjoy. Found the .45 in a friends closet talked him into a trade (gave him a better paying job). Resurrected it as it was nearly a basket case and have been enjoying it ever sense, this was in 1987. Next week i expect to finish my 4th ML gun and start on my 5th. The fourth is another rescue mission, a friend knew I was into MLs and handed me a bag of parts that he got at a swap meet, told me it was all their excpet for a stock and he thought it was a Hawken pistol. Turned out it is a CVA Mountain Pistol..The 5th will be a Kentucky .50 rifle.

Stay sharp and enjoy the outdoors and the smell of BP, Pyrodex or whatever powder you choose.

 

[Plains99]

Rollingb:I don't remember the exact dates when Kansas first allowed for the special muzzleloader season but it was in the 80's and in-lines were out by then... several of us carrying them and lobbying for the special season status. And yes, the bow hunters howled then and they still do about muzzleloaders getting first crack. We have a pretty good deal in Kansas. We are fairly rigidly managed about what we can use during the early muzzleloader season but we can use about anything we want for the regular rifle season including double barrels and scopes. I normally trophy hunt during the early season and take my does later during regular rifle season. Early muzzleloader season in Kansas is often hot, buggy, and the foliage makes it difficult to locate a good deer unless you hunt from a stand or ground blind. We are overwhelmed with deer right now and the state encourages hunters to take several deer through permits and game tags. I haven't missed filling the freezer in nearly 15 years but a true trophy deer is still a prize to work for and a piece of luck to get.

 

Isn't it a little unfair to throw-in a GPR kit price when Cabelas doesn't sell kits?? This is not how you attempt to gain an upper edge in "yes & no/do & don't" discussions.




Naturally, all ML/BP special seasons were born prior to the inline? Had inline popularity rose first, then inline special seasons would of came before sidelocks... DUH!

NO!!.. I don't consider such a comparison "unfair" at all, 'cause I jest borrowed a "page" from the inliner's arguement of,...... "all muzzleloaders are the same"!! :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif


Actually "inline popularity" did rise first,..... it was called "regular deer season" and most folks used various centerfire rifles to shoot ther deer.
..... so, some of us traditional folks worked hard to git a muzzleloader season of our own, because of the forementioned "limitations" of our traditional muzzleloaders!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif ::

Here's a question for ya,.............. Had ther "NEVER" been a special muzzleloader season for deer,... in any state..., do you "HONESTLY" believe, thet the modern inline muzzleloader would have still been "developed"????????????????????????????
........................ and if so,... "for WHAT purpose"???????????????????????????
I cain't wait to hear yore honest answer to this honest question!!!!!! :: :shocking: :: /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

YMHS
The (blind) "DUH"-man, and his (blind) "DUH"-dog! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif :haha: ::

 

rollingb, been hunting with the inline for 4 years and I would use it in the regular season if needed.

BUT!!!!!,... would yore inline STILL be yore "weapon of choice",... dur'n the "regular" season when you can use centerfires??????

I guess what I git'n at is,.... every traditional muzzleloader "hunter" thet I know, prefers to use his traditional muzzleloader dur'n regular season, "DESPITE" it's limitations,..... which IMHO, is the exact "opposite" of the reason inlines are used dur'n muzzleloader seasons!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

"Cabelas does sell GPR kits. "
===========================================================

It doesn't matter Ohio Joe! Besides that, any store will sell you anything to make a buck. All I know is that RollingB did not refer to the word "KIT" in his GPR outline. He cited two prices not having kits.

 

It doesn't matter Ohio Joe! Besides that, any store will sell you anything to make a buck. All I know is that RollingB did not refer to the word "KIT" in his GPR outline. He cited two prices not having kits.

T-7 and here was my reply,.............
NO!!.. I don't consider such a comparison "unfair" at all, 'cause I jest borrowed a "page" from the inliner's arguement of,...... "all muzzleloaders are the same"!!

If inliner's can use the misguided "philosify", thet ALL MUZZLELOADERS ARE THE SAME,.... why cain't I???? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

 

"Had ther "NEVER" been a special muzzleloader season for deer,... in any state..., do you "HONESTLY" believe, thet the modern inline muzzleloader would have still been "developed"????????????????????????????
========================================================

Because you and I cannot stop the flow of new technology, YES... it would of still been developed. However, if that was the case, sidelocks may have remained King in overall ML rifle popularity.

I'm still not taking sides on this issue even though it appears I'm backing & prefer inlines. Of the five ML guns I own, only one (T/C Omega) is not a sidelock.