inlines regulated to regular deer season

[Ohio Joe]

Now let me get this straight, Triple Se7en... It's o'kay for you to say, "Cabelas don't sell GPR kits"... It's not o'kay for, RollingB to quote prices? ::

 

I deleted this post, in the hopes of express'n myself better in the follow'n post!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

"Had ther "NEVER" been a special muzzleloader season for deer,... in any state..., do you "HONESTLY" believe, thet the modern inline muzzleloader would have still been "developed"????????????????????????????
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Because you and I cannot stop the flow of new technology, YES... it would of still been developed.

All technical advancements are driven by a "demand" for such "advancements",.... !!

..... so,... you CANNOT convince me thet,.... had ther been "NO special muzzleloader seasons", thet we would still have seen the developement of the modern inlines!! (ther was absolutely "NO need" for modern inlines before the special seasons were introduced,... in which centerfires and traditional muzzleoaders couldn't fill!!) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Any "kind" of businees would soon starve to death, if they relied on sell'n sumpthin ther was no "demand" for,.... thus would have been the fate of modern inlines, had ther been "NO" special muzzleloader seasons to start with!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

....... and, thus will be the "fate" of the modern inlines if/when the "powers-thet-be" fail to see much "DIFFERENCE" 'tween modern inlines and modern centerfires, and are banned from the special muzzleloader seasons because of constant technical advancements!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

"All technical advancements are driven by a "demand" for such "advancements",.... ..... so,... you CANNOT convince me thet,.... had ther been "NO special muzzleloader seasons", thet we would still have seen the developement of the modern inlines!! (ther was absolutely "NO need" for modern inlines before the special seasons were introduced,... in which centerfires and traditional muzzleoaders couldn't fill!!)
!!
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You forgettin' a few things RollingB!!!!!!!........

..... You're forgeting that some bp manufacturers like Thompson Center were starving at the inline birth time... looking for a shot in the arm to drive sales up.

You're forgettin' that more muzzleloader shooters still use their bp guns for rifle/shogun season than they do for the special seasons... at least here in Michigan.

Also... Alot of new products are not consumer driven... they're manufacturer driven by way of the media. All they had to do was advertise the hotter ignition, increased distance, faster twists & sabot/bullets & still turned the heads & opened the wallets of traditional rifle shooters lookin' for a change.. for sumthin' new... etc.

 

"All technical advancements are driven by a "demand" for such "advancements",.... ..... so,... you CANNOT convince me thet,.... had ther been "NO special muzzleloader seasons", thet we would still have seen the developement of the modern inlines!! (ther was absolutely "NO need" for modern inlines before the special seasons were introduced,... in which centerfires and traditional muzzleoaders couldn't fill!!)
!!
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You forgettin' a few things RollingB!!!!!!!........

..... You're forgeting that some bp manufacturers like Thompson Center were starving at the inline birth time... looking for a shot in the arm to drive sales up.

You're forgettin' that more muzzleloader shooters still use their bp guns for rifle/shogun season than they do for the special seasons... at least here in Michigan.

Also... Alot of new products are not consumer driven... they're manufacturer driven by way of the media. All they had to do was advertise the hotter ignition, increased distance, faster twists & sabot/bullets & still turned the heads & opened the wallets of traditional rifle shooters lookin' for a change.. for sumthin' new... etc.

PHOOOHEY!!.... I ain't fergot nuthin!!

I doubt if even 1% of all serious-traditional shooters have ever bought into the "inline hype"!!

BTW,.... jest how many muzzleloader folks do you personaly know, thet "AIN'T" on these chat-sites????

I spend 3-4 months each summer travel'n 'round the country and meet'n new folks, and I could probly count on one hand the number of'em thet have a modern inline sit'n at home collect'n dust.

Most hunters what use a modern inline fer hunt'n, ain't even owned a traditional muzzleloader, let alone hunted with one!! Thank goodness!!.. "they" ain't the majority of muzzleloader shooters!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

You claim to own 5 muzzleloaders, of which only one is a modern inline,...... if you like inlines so danged much, "WHY" don't you sell yore junky ol'traditional muzzleloaders and go buy a "bunch more" fancy inlines???????? :bull: /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

"Actions speak louder'n words",... my friend!! :applause: :haha: :shocking: ::

 

[buckknife]

Rolling i think yer right about most every thing. ::
Pitcure this if it were a allowed cal during a special muzzle loader season....

32 cal inline,shooting a smokeless load with 25 cal sabot
Wunder how fast that would put a bullet down range?
All muzzle loader seasons have a minumin cal allowed.What if they didnt,think were we would be today..25 cal pushed by 150 gr of pyro pills?Wunder why they make inlines in 45,50 or 54?
Could be cause they know they are going to be used in a speical muzzle loader season that was set up years ago with a minumin cal requirement.
I know im grasping at straws here but think how advanced a inline could become if they wanted. :shocking:

 

[bob1961]

i use my flintlock in all the deer seasons that call for firearms....mid oct -- muzzleloader one week, any type can be used....late nov -- buck & doe two weeks....then flintlock season in jan, about two and a half weeks....so i'm happy....and now that i have my new stock on my flinter i'm real happy now....and a bow for that season......................bob

 

Buckknife,.... By golly!!.. you are one smart fella!!.. Heck!!.. I hadn't even thot 'bout thet!!

You may very well have revealed "why" the inlines ain't out-perform'n some of the centerfire-"magnums" by now!!

It may be the fact thet they ain't "allowed" to use .308, or .284 bullets,.... and instead, are restricted to use'n big fat sabot-jacketed bullets!!

"Modified-centerfire" agin takes on a possible new "mean'n" fer modern inlines!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif :haha: :haha: :applause:

I wonder how long it'll take'em to git the exist'n "regs" changed to accept smaller and faster jacketed bullets, like ther big-brothers???? :: :curse:

 

[buckknife]

Rolling they have 50cals that will shoot 40cal bullets and 45 that will shoot 357 bullets.The regs here in Iowa read for muzzle loader season...flintlock or percussion cap muzzzleloading rifles or muskets between .44 and .775 caliber,shooting single projectiles.bows.and handguns.There are no restriction on inline or disk-type muzzleloaders.
Now the way i figure if a person could stuff a 30 cal bullet in a 45 it would be legal here.That is if they could figuare out how to get the accuracy out of it.So my guess is this is where the improvements will be ::.It might take em some time but sooner or later they will figure ut how to push a 25 cal or 30 out of a 45 or 50.
Just in the last 2 years they lifted the ban on smokeless powder here in muzzle loader season. ::
So i guess they wont be no need for the high power muzzle loaders in 32,just high power 30 cal bullets for 45 and 50 cals.thats where inline bullets are headed in there increasing need to shoot the almighty mile they strive for.
They already make aduplex sabot that is a plastic sabot inside another one so it can shoot a 357 out of a 50.how many sabots do you figuer it would take to shoot a 30 cal out of a 50.A triplex or quad plex?Heck maybe someday with a Hexaplex a person may be able to shoot a 22 out of a 50 cal :shocking: :: /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

"You claim to own 5 muzzleloaders, of which only one is a modern inline,...... if you like inlines so danged much, "WHY" don't you sell yore junky ol'traditional muzzleloaders and go buy a "bunch more" fancy inlines??"

Please RollingB

Go copy & paste anywhere -- on any ml site where I stated I love inlines over traditional rifles.
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"I doubt if even 1% of all serious-traditional shooters have ever bought into the "inline hype"!!"

RollingB.... seeing that only 1% of traditional shooters attend these 'cross country shows', then all those serious-traditional shooters you speak about are a very small number.... almost irrelevant to discuss.
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"Most hunters what use a modern inline fer hunt'n, ain't even owned a traditional muzzleloader, let alone hunted with one!! Thank goodness!!.. "they" ain't the majority of muzzleloader shooters!! "

You are way-off-base with that statement. I think you're "way-out-in-left-field" now.... in another Twilight Zone!
Nice chattin' with ya' RollingB.. it's time to talk with some unbiased ML folks now. I seriously think I'm going to scroll over your posts in the future... even if you're addressing one of my threads. Have a nice life!

 

[Ohio Joe]

buckknife,,, Hope you don't mind me jumping in here but I read your post and am in total agreement with you. Nebraska has pretty much the same game laws as your state when it comes to the muzzleloaders... You have put into words exactly what I've been wondering for years... How is it that if the minimum caliber is .44 in a muzzleloader, folks can get away with using .357 sabots? I would think the game wardens would stand up and state, "how in the hell can we inforce the game laws on the books if we can't inforce what's written and coming out of a muzzleloader's barrel during the muzzleloading season?" It's high time the states take a hard look at this and correct the path they once started down for the primitive season.

 

Propredator

The reason we see 45-50-54 cal the most is because they are the optium caliber sizes for bullets to fly correctly (stabilization). It has absolutely nuthin' to do with special season regulations. As a matter of fact, the lowest 'stabilized" caliber for shooting 150 grains is 45 caliber. If you don't believe me.. send a email regarding that to Cecil at Precision Bullets Co. You won't be seeing any 30 caliber ml bullets in a 40 cal rifle using 150 grains.... not for the forseeable future.

Enjoy your roundball shootin' this season. I haven't gone as far as you Props... but I have abandoned sabot/bullets in all my ml rifles ... at least for this year. I'm doin' all conicals & lovin' it. Still ain't found the perfect one yet for the fast twist Omega, but the Deerhunter, Renegade, Trapper & Shenandoah are all set.

 

"Here's a question for ya,.............. Had ther "NEVER" been a special muzzleloader season for deer,... in any state..., do you "HONESTLY" believe, thet the modern inline muzzleloader would have still been "developed"????????????????????????????"
No.
I dont know anyone in person that uses a traditional muzzleloader for hunting where I hunt. All inlines. With deer numbers going up and hunter numbers going down I expect the rules to change to get more people hunting. 150g of 777 behind a 22/sabot/sabot/sabot/sabot/50cal would interest me. Mabe add a sabot and a 17cal bullet. Turn that 50 cal into a nice varmin gun.

 

Not sure I follow you, Rolling Block- the inlines have to shoot with the regualars now - no special season for them, it's for side hammers, iron sighs and RB only - smooth or rifled is OK, even though it's against the law to use shotguns on moose. The muskets and fowlers are considered ball guns just liek in the past, they had a dual role.
Daryl

 

Trip7 and rollingb.
you guys are awesome! You both should enter the political arena as you'd both be good at it. :haha:
I'm a proud traditionalist, but as everyone knows I swtiched FROM in-lines to traditional rifles, (now a .62 smoothie).
I posted a 'survey' on the in-line forum and so far the results show that most in-line shooters also have traditional style arms.
Now the traditional side of the game appeals to me. It does not to everyone. I suppose that's why we have so many CHOICES and I respect the right of everyone to choose for themselves.
Now lets all be nice to each other :curse: and behave like good little fellers and enjoy what we have.
My good e-friend in South Africa just bought an Uberti Colt revolver and only had to wait FIVE MONTHS for his LICENSE to be approved.
Yep. 5 month wait, and the cops interviewed his neighbors to be sure he was "alrihgt" to own a black powder revolver.
If we split ourselves over what type of guns we should own, hunt with, shoot, or hang on the wall to look at then WE will be applying for a license to own a black powder firearm.
Just a little food for though. :winking:

 

[Huntinfool]

This subject has been beat to death, I hope I can have the last word.

I long for an early ML season in my home state our season is the last deer hunting allowed at the end of the season. Our State just started allowing scopes during ML season last year. The last hold out to keep ML season from being completely a modern sport!

That being said I dearly believe that we as Outdoorsmen need to stick together. The anti-hunters main purpose is to divide and conquer.

I've seen it all my life the deer hunters fussin' with the fox hunters. The fox hunters fussin' with the coon hunters. The bow hunters fussin' with the gun hunters the list goes on and on. Some like to hunt out of tree stands, some don't! Some bait, some don't, some use dogs, some don't!

When we got our ML season the WV Bowhunters Association lobbied against us. They were afraid we would cut in on their long season. As it turned out it had to go through the legislature because the DNR wouldn't cross the WVBHA. (The dang deer are now overpopulated we would've really hurt their long season.)

The law our legislators put through states that as long as WV has a deer season there will be a ML season. So the DNR gave us the last possible season late Dec.

Just think if we could all come together UNDER ONE STRONG BANNER the things we could accomplish!

I may not like the way you hunt but I'll defend your right to do it so long as it's legal! Don't let the Anti's win!

United We Stand
Divided We Fall
"The Chuckster" ::

 

Amen bro! :applause:

 

After six years of applying I finally drew my states best muzzleloader Mule Deer hunt. I hunted all day long for a week and did'nt even see one other muzz. hunter. I'm not sure who I bothered, but it must have been somebody because me and my inline are not allowed in that hunt any more.
Even our long standing open sights rule wasen't good enough for them. It is now a sidehammer, roundball only hunt.

Our F&G department is so ignorant all they know about inline rifles is the #*^%! that gets printed in the magazine ads.

BTW, I shot the biggest buck of my life, after stalking within 20 feet of him, I got so close infact, I didn't even need to use my sights.

 

After six years of applying I finally drew my states best muzzleloader Mule Deer hunt. I hunted all day long for a week and did'nt even see one other muzz. hunter. I'm not sure who I bothered, but it must have been somebody because me and my inline are not allowed in that hunt any more.
Even our long standing open sights rule wasen't good enough for them. It is now a sidehammer, roundball only hunt.

Our F&G department is so ignorant all they know about inline rifles is the #*^%! that gets printed in the magazine ads.

BTW, I shot the biggest buck of my life, after stalking within 20 feet of him, I got so close infact, I didn't even need to use my sights.

Fairchase,.... I have always said thet the inline "industry" was the inliner's own worst enemy ("NOT" us traditionalist), and yore post best describes what I see the future holds in store for the modern inlines. This scenerio will only git worse as the "advancements" in technology gives more creditablity to the modern inline as be'n nuthin but a single-shot rifle with centerfire ballistics.

I cain't unnerstand why some folks are so naive and find it so difficult to realize thet EVERBUDDY reads the hype published in the magazines and most EVERBUDDY believes the advertisements!!
In fact the customer believes it himself, and thet is "why" he buys the inline in the "first place",... so, why is it so "shocking" to realize thet the folks at yore Fish & Game Department "ALSO" believe what they read?????

I doubt if folks thet love ther inlines, can find "one single article" in "ANY" magazine, thet threatens the continued "use" of modern inlines as much as the the "hype" itself does!! In fact I have NEVER heard of a "anti-inline" article be'n published in any magazine by traditionalists!!

In most of my posts 'bout inlines, I have tried to act sort of like a "sound'n board" and describe "what and how" the general public and the Fish and Game Depts.,... might view modern inlines!!

Traditionalist git accused of write'n stuff here on the chat-sites thet can be used aginst "inliners" by the anti-hunt'n folks supposededly read'n these threads,... yet "NO THOUGHT" is give'n to all the magazines distributed all across this nation!!

If modern inlines are EVER "banned" from special muzzleloader seasons, you fellas can thank the "printed word" in the magazines for it's demise,.... "NOT" us traditional shooter's!!

 

Not sure I follow you, Rolling Block- the inlines have to shoot with the regualars now - no special season for them, it's for side hammers, iron sighs and RB only - smooth or rifled is OK, even though it's against the law to use shotguns on moose. The muskets and fowlers are considered ball guns just liek in the past, they had a dual role.
Daryl

Daryl,... Sorry 'bout the confusion, I thot in yore reply to MusketMan, thet the fellas shoot'n traditional muzzleloaders were put in a "new" special season.

I'm "clear" on it now, and I'm pleased to see thet yore muzzleloader season is still sumpthin "special"!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif :applause: