Investarms Hawken Shredding Patches

[Chevythunderman]

+1 on the patches! I have a 50 cal investarms just like yours. It will cut bullet holes with a 50 grain triple f with a .015 pillow ticking patch and a .490 ball. I used to use the store bought prelubed patches and had nothing but trouble. Then I got on this forum and learned a whole lot about the issues you run into and how to fix them. Start with one item and shoot it then change something else. Never change 2 things at once. These guns are very accurate just some are more picky about how they get to that point. My patches will have some fray around the outside edge but it is very small. Try reducing your loads and see if that helps. Sometimes the way people think that if 60 grains is good 90 is better is not the way to think with these guns. Way too many people think you have to stuff a manure load of powder down these things. Good luck to you. Try some dry patches lubricated with hoppes black powder lubricant or olive oil or Crisco or whatever you can think of to use. Some people have really good luck with just plain old spit patches.

 

[PeteDavis]

An over-powder felt wad, like the prelubed oxyoke ones, will allow the ball to clear the crown before the gases vent around the unequally frayed patch. I doubt changing patch alone will help. This can restore accuracy in a pitted barrel such as yours, but the cleaning issues will remain.

PD

 

[mamero]

Used calipers to measure the patches. Store bought T/C patches advertised as .018 measured .017 inch. Pillow ticking bought at Joanne's measured .019 inch. There is appreciable difference in loading the Hornady .490 round ball with ticking I bought at Joanne's and that of store bought patches.

I do use a jag when I clean and bring a fiberglass rod for range cleaning. The cleaning patches (old cut up cotton bedding) used to get cut in one spot while vigorously cleaning. It apperes that this spot is gone since last steel wool treatment. With help of my brother we did another 800 passes with the 0000 wool.

The more I look down this bore the more I think that this is an example of bad finish in the barrel. The lands are glassy smooth and grooves look like are chater marks from tooling.

I will polish the bore with bore lapping paste and take it for an extensive range time over the wekend. I even took a couple days off from work to try and figure this rifle out.

I will start from scratch using bulk ticking greased with T/C Bore Butter, hornady lead balls and 50 grains of black powder and work my way up.

For a long term solution it appears waiting for Hoyt to re start his operation is most cost effective way to get what I need. I will keep an eye for a .50 cal lefty barrel to send out for re boring in .54 cal in 1:66 or 1:70 twist. This barrel appeares to shoot conicals fine.

I appreciate everyones input and will post some photos from the range time.

 

[mamero]

Thank you for your input, glad to hear from someone with the same firearm. So you use FFF grade black powder and get good results? How low can you go with powder and still have a load capable of killing whitetail with good shot placement?

I located a barrel blank but cant locate a gunsmith to do the work. Anyone knows of a competent gunsmith to thread and install breach plug, sight and rib. Local wanted over $400 with bluing and in the end refused to get involved. One custom maker makes a barrel for $225 unblued but there is a year and a half waiting time 😳

 

[coloradoclyde]

used calipers to measure the patches. Store bought T/C patches advertised as .018 measured .017 inch. Pillow ticking bought at Joanne's measured .019 inch. There is appreciable difference in loading the Hornady .490 round ball with ticking I bought at Joanne's and that of store bought patches.

I do use a jag when I clean and bring a fiberglass rod for range cleaning. The cleaning patches (old cut up cotton bedding) used to get cut in one spot while vigorously cleaning. It apperes that this spot is gone since last steel wool treatment. With help of my brother we did another 800 passes with the 0000 wool.

One of the points I was trying to make ...is that there is a big difference between ticking...it's not just the thickness, but the toughness of the weave.....you seem to have confirmed that by the statement I highlighted. :thumbsup:

It also appears that the steel wool treatment is making progress........I look forward to your range report.


I would seriously consider replacing the fiberglass rod and the bore butter.

I own multiple Hawkins, including an Investarms from Cabelas...I've Also been down your road before......

 

[mooman76]

Did you try ebay for a replacement barrel? You might try a stronger patch cloth like denim. I think you could still get decent hunting groups if you can get a cloth strong enough to hold up. Maybe even try a extra patch for an over powder wad.

 

[Devodud]

I say start using the felt over powder wads as one person suggested. It really helped solved my burnt patch problem in my smoothbore.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Those aren't burnt patches...they are torn.
Burnt patches present with a circular pattern...

 

[Chevythunderman]

Check with rice barrels! He makes a barrel that will work with what you have. If you can find a green mountain drop in barrel that is what I would recommend!! I built a sam hawken around a t/c drop in barrel made by green mountain and that thing is a beast. It will blow your mind of the accuracy that barrel is capable of. Any of the green mountain t/c drop in barrels will work in your rifle short of maybe having to install new underlugs to match your wedge placement on your investarms. It can be done at home with very simple tools (drill press, calipers, and proper size drill bit, and underlug install kit from track of the wolf)! You should probably check track of the wolf or www.muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com. They might have exactly what you need. You can also check with Pecatonica river muzzleloaders. They have a website but you would be better off calling them to see if they have what you need. I don't have a 15/16" barrel or else I would make you a barrel that would just drop right in. Call rice barrels first they are great people to deal with....

 

[mamero]

I did locate a Green Mountain barrel at Track the Wolf. A 54 cal with 1:70 twist. If I put together all the parts would you be willing to the work?

 

[BrownBear]

Forgive me if I've read right past it, but I'm not seeing anything here to show you backed off from the 209's for a comparison. If it wasn't shredding patches with #11's and now it's shredding them with the 209's, that looks like a great big fat clue to me.

 

[mamero]

I have not been back to the range yet I will give that a try as well, thanks for reminding me

 

[sleeperNY]

Where are you located here in NY? There are a lot of locals that may be able to help you.
I'm located in the town of Summerhill just west of Cortland

Jim

 

[mamero]

Utica, no smiths in my area unfortunately. A quick call to Rice confirmed they can make any barrel but they need to know the thread size for my breech plug. My google fu did not come up with any good info. Anyone have any idea.

Maybe you can show me a thing or two at the range. Nothing beat some real hman interaction at times!

 

[Chevythunderman]

I might be wrong in my assumption here but a Thompson center hooked breech plug will work on a investarms rifle. I have had my buddies t/c drop in barrel in my investarms rifle the underlug did not match up but it did fit in the rifle the only thing I don't remember checking was the alignment of the hammer to nipple..... Anybody else weigh in on this?!?!?!

Track of the wolf sells a t/c breech plug as rice would probably sell one also. I would just put a new breech plug in the new barrel as removing the one in your gun might be kind of hard. The barrel in your investarms should be a 15/16" if its a .50 but I would measure it just to be safe. Did you ask rice if they would build you a simple drop in barrel?

If you couldn't find anyone willing to do it local I could fix it up for you. PM me if that's what you want to do and we'll talk about our options a little more.

I would check out your primer situation at the range just to make sure that's not what the issue is before you spend a whole lot of money on a new barrel. Those rifles are crazy accurate with the right load. In response to your question about a reduced load for hunting I use 60 grains of triple f for my hunting load and have had no issues out to 100 yards. (never shot one over 100 yds)

 

[mamero]

I honestly appreciat all your help. I will give it extensive testing this weekend and make a decision on what to do.

Thank you, MO

 

[Chevythunderman]

sounds great! Good luck to you! And remember the biggest thing with these is to use patience!! Some of these rifles can be very particular on what they want to make them shoot great.

 

[mamero]

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Tried posting photos of the barrel but they would not work again. Anyway, managed to get my hands on a pound of Goex FFFG, .459 Hornady balls and 385 grain Traditions conical to have just in case. Been polishing the bore with Mothers. The JB paste just shipped today grrrrr.

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[Chevythunderman]

I shoot a .490 hornady round ball out of mine. But trying a .495 won't hurt anything. It all has to do with the pressure from the patch/ball combination. I don't shoot conicals in any of my black powder rifles. I find that a patched round ball kills everything I need to kill just fine. Our elk herd here in Missouri is quite small yet and don't anticipate an elk season for quite sometime. So I really can't offer up any advise on the conical shooting.

 

[mamero]

Yeah shooting conical is not what I want to do but if I cant figure out the proper load for this rifle I am willing to try anything to keep hunting. I have located and purchased two left handed breech plugs for this rifle for my future 54 cal round ball barrel build. I spoke to Jason from Rice barrels and he stated he has a barrel in stock but was not sure what the thread size is on Investarm plugs. Anyone have any idea?