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Iron mounted rifles

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I have an iron mounted transitional rifle. How far back are iron rifles documented? I need to shorten the length of pull on it. While I have the thing apart im thinking of switching to brass furniture. Im also thinking of redoing the patch box I don't like the sliding wood one im always dropping the lid.
 
Several iron mounted flintlocks have surfaced in the past couple of years, I believe Gustler has shown them in MuzzleBlasts. There are historical accounts of seeing backwoods men dressed in woodland colors carrying " black " rifles. When you think about it you need to cast brass,
it is much easier to forge iron in the back country. Hopefully someone can offer advice to tighten up your patchbox.
 
Shine said:
Im also thinking of redoing the patch box I don't like the sliding wood one im always dropping the lid.
I hear you. I stood mine against a tree for a minute, then went home and discovered the lid missing. Found it, but fixed it so it won't happen again.

safety.jpg


Spence
 
Shine said:
I have an iron mounted transitional rifle. How far back are iron rifles documented? I need to shorten the length of pull on it. While I have the thing apart im thinking of switching to brass furniture. Im also thinking of redoing the patch box I don't like the sliding wood one im always dropping the lid.

Iron mounted rifles date back to the first rifles made in Europe, at least as far back as wheellocks. If you mean, "in America, made in the colonies", we don't know when the first iron mounted rifles were made here by colonial gunsmiths as a "regular style being made". Of course there was much re-use of parts off old and broken down guns, so there must have been some restocking with iron mounts, which were much more expensive than brass mounts, and so would have been re-used, especially since they could not be melted down like old brass mounts. Based on remaining specimens, period accounts, etc, we can say that rifles made in the colonies with iron mounts forged here or with new imported iron mounts were not prevalent before the 1790's although some few were apparently made during the Revolutionary War period. I say few because where they were made, there were no large manufactories like in Allentown, Lancaster, or York Pennsylvania, where some real war production of rifles (brass mounted, of course, from that region)is documented. The earliest surviving example of an American made rifle with forged iron furniture is estimated to be a 1770's rifle by Wallace Gusler. There are earlier accounts in newspapers of iron-mounted rifles but of course there is no way to know if the rifles were made in Europe or here, or whether the mounts were Euro style or forged here in simpler forms. The Appalachian "mountain rifle" or "poor boy" as some like to call is, is largely a post-1800 phenomenon.

Also, regarding the casting of brass versus forging of iron: it is more expensive and challenging to forge from iron than cast brass mounts, most mounts seem to have been purchased as imports or from a regional gunsmith who casted them regularly, and it was no harder to obtain cast brass mounts than it was to obtain barrels and locks, which the majority of gunsmiths bought instead of making. The "remote gunsmith" is mostly a romantic concept, unless they were in the employ of a fort or trading company, where they mostly fixed guns. Most gunsmiths worked in booming or emerging market centers, where folks came to get all their needs met. High quality trade goods were available in Ohio and beyond to Indians, so we don't need to imagine the lonely gunsmith chopping down a tree and forging a lump of iron into all the needed parts. Using that approach he'd be limited to producing 3-6 rifles a year. He'd also need specialized skills worth much more in a gunmaking center. A locksmith could demand a higher wage than a gunstocker.
 
"Iron mounted" may be the first pole guns - no brass or anything BUT iron. Wheellocks of the 1500's commonly had iron (or silver) trigger bows. The French Charleville muskets of various model (1754, 1763, 1766/8, 1777) were iron mounted.
 
As far as "transitional rifles" (just a term meaning some rifle made in the colonies before the "fully evolved longrifle" emerged)are concerned, many of the original examples we know of have European-derived brass furniture. However, to get back to the original question, it is no simple task to replace all the furniture on a gun, if that is considered. Removing and replacing a nosecap and the entry thimble would give me the willies. Replacing the rest of the furniture would just be tedious.
 
I've seen orignals that had been sawed off at the butt, with carving that obviously had the back end chopped off. One was a John Bonewitz, a very fine rifle. You could decide whether you want the rifle to display an "in-use modification" or look "unmodified". If "unmodified", a total refinish is probably in order, allowing the carving to be modified, a new patchbox fitted, maybe extended, new furniture fitted and the wood taken down to match, etc. The older the gun in usage (say yours might represent a 1750's-1760's rifle fixed up in 1770), the more likely it would have been modified at some point. Might be a cool project, but I find it easier to cut wood to fit a part to be inletted, than to modify a part to fit an existing inlet. And you'd be doing that on the toeplate, sideplate, thimbles and nosecap if you replace them with brass.
 
While I can sympathize with your problems with this gun, in my opinion your proposals would totally ruin it.

While changing the thimbles would be fairly easy, changing the rest of the parts would not.

Cutting an inch off of the butt will get into the carving ruining it and trying to refit a butt plate on a finished gun is very difficult to say the least.

It would be better to buy an advanced kit from Chambers, Pecatonica River, Track of the Wolf or other suppliers and start your rifle from scratch, making the furniture the brass you want and the length of pull to fit you.

You can always sell your current rifle to cover the costs but IMO, if you make the changes you mentioned no one will want to buy this gun unless they are buying it as a 'parts gun'.
 
The trouble is finding someone that wants a gun with a 14.5 inch LOP. That and this is not a light gun at 11 lbs or so. But it is .58 and it is very accurate. I hump it around all day but Ive carried alot heavier alot further. With 100 grs of 3f, It likes powder,I would shoot anything with it.
 
Shine said:
its a straight green mountain barrel. I bet its between 10 and 11.
I think you'd win. I have a Hawken with a 34" straight Green Mountain barrel in 1" x .54 and it weighs 9 1/2 lb.

Spence
 
I've got a GRRW 58 cal Hawken, 36" barrel tapered from 1 1/8" to 1". It tips the scale at a couple of ounces shy of 12 pounds. It's made from a real dense piece of walnut too, but I'm not surprised by those weights.
 
As others have said it would be a shame to ruin your fine rifle, by taking an inch of the butt.
There are many shooters out there that would appreciate a rifle with 14 1/2" pull.
All finished and ready to go.
And you would be money ahead by working with a pre-carv kit, also you would get what you really want.
As said before, cut the stock and ruin the carving, you would have great difficulty in resale.
Good luck on your choice!
Old Ford
 
Do yourself a favor and just sell the gun and make or buy what you want. I have been down this road. As the others have said you will end up doing more harm than good.
 
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