Iron mounted rifles

[hoochiepapa]

Zonie and Shine, beautiful rifles.
Twice boom, I agree with you to the point that some of the PC/HC crowd look down their noses at those that don't want to follow the piper.
I had a very bad expeience with a local club that invited me to their shoot, and then snubbed me because I didn't have period gear. It's the same with all the shooting and hunting. "If you don't do it my way, then you ain't nothin'".
We should be supporting each other in our endeavors, not criticsizing(sp?).
"I don't shoot with bp, so why should I support them? Let them lose their rights, It doesn't affect me." And I don't know if it will ever change. If a person wants to be HC/PC, I support that, but don't think that I have to do the same.
This is not a reflection on anyone here, just an observation. :yakyak:
HAPPY NEW YEAR, everyone!

 

[Twice boom]

I'm sorry to hear that happened to you, no excuse for it being you were a new comer. I don’t know what you did under those circumstances but had it been me I would have found away to verbally punish them with out known to them that I was ..

Although I like to do my BP shot gunning as closely as it was done back when, I can though be tolerant to a new comer and at the same time try to ease him in to maybe trying it the old way and see if he did not get more out of his Muzzle loading experience. So I do not feel as though I deserve the slap in the face if I were to casually mention if he was aware that things were not done that way back when.. If he does and still wants to Jug choke his gun, or buy an Inline scoped to shoot the latest load out of it ,so be it. I’ve gave him the choice. But I am not going to allow myself to be shouted down by folks that preach one thing when it suits them and say and do things when it does not.

And I too wish you a Happy and prosperous New Year.

Twice.

 

[tg]

Good post, I have seen that all to often folks jump to the defensive when no reason was given, if one carefully reads this thread it is a good example.

 

[hanshi]

Unless a poster specifically asks about the PC/HC of his or her arm, then it's nobody's business but the owner's who, in that case, doesn't want or care about the information. If, however, the question asked seeks information on the authenticity of said firearm; then any informational comments are quite apropos and should be appreciated. Never should there be any comment such as, "it's not much of a gun" or "the cost means it's not much", etc., etc. What someone owns is only theirs to criticize. Still, an open mind to (sought) sincere information should ALWAYS be appreciated.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Never should there be any comment such as, "it's not much of a gun" or "the cost means it's not much", etc., etc

So, we should all rave endlessly about an obvious turd? :idunno: I'd think the owner would want to know the truth, I know I would.

 

[tg]

Now Mike, I think that maybe it was a very well made turd just not a PC/HC turd :hmm:

If someone asks for any information about a gun the PC/HC/traditional factor is a valid part of the info on any ML unless the question specificaly states something like "tell me about this gun but do not tell me anything about the traditional/PC/HC level" you will not liekly find many questions like that, if someone does not care about any part of a gun evaluation they can simply dissregaurd that part, and it is usually not the original poster that throwas a fit when history is mentioned from what I have seen.

 

[hanshi]

If you wish to proffer such comments without a request then don't shrivel up like a salted slug when you get the same comments in return. By the way I saw one of your guns recently and it looked like $@*&$&#. See what I'm getting at. What you say is only your opinion, not necessarily shared by others with maybe even better taste, and not in anyway a fact.

 

[hanshi]

Don't ask; don't tell.

 

[Mike Brooks]

If you wish to proffer such comments without a request then don't shrivel up like a salted slug when you get the same comments in return. By the way I saw one of your guns recently and it looked like $@*&$&#. See what I'm getting at. What you say is only your opinion, not necessarily shared by others with maybe even better taste, and not in anyway a fact.

:haha:

 

[hanshi]

:bow: :bow: :bow:

 

[CrossXstix]

I am a Lefty also, and haven't ever seen an orginal Left hand 1700s era rifle. Were there ever any? I would hate to go through the pains of putting together a HC/PC Left hand Early Lancaster, and when getting to a re-enactment, find out all my work was in vain.

X
David

 

[rich pierce]

New Year, same old routines.

 

[rich pierce]

I am a Lefty also, and haven't ever seen an orginal Left hand 1700s era rifle. Were there ever any? I would hate to go through the pains of putting together a HC/PC Left hand Early Lancaster, and when getting to a re-enactment, find out all my work was in vain.

X
David

I have not seen examples of left-handed colonial era longrifles. I think it's good to put the re-enactment thing into perspective sometimes. If a person is a re-enactor, like maybe somebody is a bowler or a softball player or a golfer- that's what they do on weekends- then it makes sense to make equipment decisions based on how things fit into your re-enacting role. But if you're a plinker, hunter, target shooter who sometimes enjoys participating in a re-enactment event, then I'd make sure the item/piece of equipment/gun suited the main purposes really well, and was also passable for re-enactment. And I would not depend on what folks on this board say is acceptable, because they may not attend the events you are interested in attending. Get to know the locals. Generally speaking the strictest requirements are when you are part of a "unit", which might be military, a brigade of trappers, a bunch of folks representing people at a frontier fort, etc, who do real demonstration. When it's a rendezvous, a trade faire, etc, and you are on your own hook, generally requirements are less strict. Contact the organizer of some events you'd like to attend. My guess is that if you have a period gun made with a left-handed flintlock, your gun will be more than acceptable to most. The PC/HC "police" are really mostly self-monitoring- they are striving for their impression, are willing and evern eager to help others work on theirs, but are not into trashing others.

 

[tg]

There was a 18th century left hand lock fopund French I believe and I think the double barreled guns went back to at least the mid 18th century so such a gun would be plausible, if made they were likely in such small numbers that survivors to the present would not be likely.

 

[tg]

Lighten up Hanshi you are really not in the same level of the game to engage Mike about ML's that is a fact it is best for all to try and stay within their limits of knowledge and experience when talking about originals and replicas.This post is not meant with animosity just common sense and reality, all have opinions some are just backed up by decades of experience/research others by emotional response and attitude at times.

 

[Okwaho]

Federal period {post late 1780's}left handers,wenders,and at least one or two side by side rifles are known but these are rare.The William Antes wender {RCA Vol.II No.54}built probably in the 1980's decade or a few years either side is likely the earliest one {Shumway RCA Vol.2 PP.232-235} This in spite of the Timothy Murphy legend!
The left handed French gun referred to by TG is mentioned in Hamilton's "Colonial Frontier Guns" PP.60-61 as being dug in Alabama.I know of no other left handed Fusils du trait.
Tom Patton

 

[Dphar]

Federal period {post late 1780's}left handers,wenders,and at least one or two side by side rifles are known but these are rare.The William Antes wender {RCA Vol.II No.54}built probably in the 1980's decade or a few years either side is likely the earliest one {Shumway RCA Vol.2 PP.232-235} This in spite of the Timothy Murphy legend!
The left handed French gun referred to by TG is mentioned in Hamilton's "Colonial Frontier Guns" PP.60-61 as being dug in Alabama.I know of no other left handed Fusils du trait.
Tom Patton

The Antes swivel is possibly the earliest known rifle with the "Allentown Indian" carved on it. It surely dates to the 1770s and could be earlier.

The Wender was well known in Europe from the early flintlock era. See Lenk's "The Flintlock". Thinking the American gunsmiths of the time, some of which were European guild trained such as Andreas Albright a Moravian just as was Antes, did not know of or know how to make a swivel breech is not realistic.
Simon Kenton ordered a double rifle from PA circa 1780.
Murphy may or may not have had a double rifle at Saratoga would require some document to know. But its not impossible based on the skill of the makers in PA.
There is some excellent info and color photos of several Antes rifles including the Wender in "Moravian Gun Making of the American Revolution" published by the KRA. It is available on their web site.

Dan

 

[jsn]

I have seen 2 scottish pistols dated 1611 and 1614 They are left handed snaphances and are on page 127 of "Pollard's History of Firearms"

on page 132 of the same book there is a brescia left handed snaphance pistol

On page 143 there is an french fowling piece dated 1777-1778

On page 412 there is another lefthanded scottish pistol

It is plausible that they could have existed, like many have said those that were are probably not arround. I would get a european or new england styled one in lefthand seems to fit the bill.

Here is a left handed piece that is in the NRA collection
www.nramuseum.com

Its under prospering new republic case 28 in the galleries section
Soo its not out of the realm of possibility. Interesting history.

 

[Skylinewatcher]

Oh gawd! Get'em off the ground! :shocked2:

 

[rich pierce]

I read something interesting the other day, that many pistols were made left handed in some periods because the right hand was holding the sword in combat. Sounded pirate-y (and cool).