Is pure lead really necessary for muzzle loading balls or bullet in rifle or hand gun ?

[M. De Land]

OK.
Then what is the point to your topic question? You understand hardness and what it does and how to get there.
This is a forum that recognizes soft lead as being good for these guns.
What BHN represents soft lead to you?
What answer do you seek?

I know what I think and reasons for that posture but want to know what others have found by experiment and experience. I don't learn much by living in an echo chamber of one dimension thought I need others challenging my ideas/jnotions and testimony of what they have found works.
Were hashing it out so to speak !

 

[necchi]

That's good, I get it,, but it's a traditional forum too, ya know(?)
I don't think they considered keeping what they cast in a freezer for a year, so that cast size change would be slowed before what they cast would be out of tolerance for use.
Again, the question too you is at what point BHN is considered soft or hard?

 

[M. De Land]

That's good, I get it,, but it's a traditional forum too, ya know(?)
I don't think they considered keeping what they cast in a freezer for a year, so that cast size change would be slowed before what they cast would be out of tolerance for use.
Again, the question too you is at what point BHN is considered soft or hard?

I think I can safely use the 9 BHN hardness from a chamber pressure stand point as long as it doesn't shear the loading lever screw or bend the lever when seating ball or bullet.
As an alternative one could always load from a cylinder press out of the gun I suppose.
The other question is will balls or bullets be accurate in these undersize chamber throats in relation to barrel groove diameters without reaming them to match. It seems to me that original design depended on soft lead bump up and is the reason for undersize chamber throating.
Soft to me mean 5 BHN pure lead balls or bullets.
Hard are water dropped W/W bullets at 12-15 BHN

 

[Nazgul58]

Hard lead makes more barrel traverse resistance when engaging the rifling thus raising breech pressure. Increased weight alone will raise pressure let alone rifling engraving adding to the resistance.

A RB is loaded from the muzzle. Any engagement of the rifling takes place there with the patch/ball deformation as it is started in the barrel. After that it just slides down the barrel until it is fired when it slides back out.

Don

 

[M. De Land]

A RB is loaded from the muzzle. Any engagement of the rifling takes place there with the patch/ball deformation as it is started in the barrel. After that it just slides down the barrel until it is fired when it slides back out.

Don

I'm primarily speaking of revolver balls and bullets not linen patch balls although they also bump up some from the pressure of ignition and the trip up bore.

 

[John May]

I broke the loading lever of a Walker repro using lead balls that were gifted to me (Ha, some gift!). Ever since then, probably 30 years, I have used lead that I knew the origin of, mostly old lead piping. But watch out for spiders, they go Bang with a vengeance!

 

[45D]

I broke the loading lever of a Walker repro using lead balls that were gifted to me (Ha, some gift!). Ever since then, probably 30 years, I have used lead that I knew the origin of, mostly old lead piping. But watch out for spiders, they go Bang with a vengeance!

Yes, I've done the same. Careful with Remingtons, you can bend the frame loading/shooting as well!!

Mike

 

[earlwb]

Well as I was taught and understand it. A round ball bullet does not engage the rifling. It is the patch used on the bullet that engages the rifling. A proper patched bullet will have no or almost no rifling marks in the bullet when fired and recovered. Thus the hardness of the lead alloy used would have no effect on the bullets. But it may or may not affect how the bullet expands or doesn’t expand in game though.

Yes in cap and ball revolvers using pure lead when loading with the lever on the gun. But if you were loading the cylinder off the revolver with a cylinder loading press then maybe it is less of a big deal.

Conical bullets can be a whole new ballgame though. But as I see it is that it depends on the rifle, it’s rifling twist rate, and the depth of the rifling. There would be some point or level of hardness that would lead to more difficulty loading and less accuracy.

But using a minie ball design allows you to use a undersized bullet as the bullet skirt will expand to fit the bore and rifling. But even then there is probably a point at which the hardness even detracts from that.

Using sabots would probably be a good way to go as the sabot engages the rifling and not the bullet. Thus lead hardness or even jacketed bullets would not be a problem. How it expands on game is affected though. But they use solid brass or copper bullets or some such similar design intended for dangerous game and maximum penetration too.

I think some of the mythology with lead hardness and bullets goes way back to when jacketed bullets became popular. With old style muzzleloaders the steel alloy used with barrels might lead to premature barrel wear. I don’t see copper jacketed bullets ad being much of a problem but steel jacketed bullets are likely bad for old style muzzleloading barrels. But if you have a modern steel alloy barrel then it isn’t a problem.

Bullet lead alloy hardness is only a problem if you can’t easily get the bullet rammed down the barrel. Needing to use a thick steel ram rod and a ten pound sledge hammer to seat the bullet is probably not good. Thus pure lead wins in ease of use.

 

[DementedMindOfJac]

Watching...
I'll be playing with a 38" .45 with a 1:20 twist as soons it warms up come springtime.

 

[Reno]

Pure lead for muzzleloaders.

I get mine from Rotometals and don’t look back. Their supplies are about as pure as you can get to.
I get the fact that expense is a consideration.
The muzzleloaders are expensive also.
I choose to use pure lead.

 

[waksupi]

I've been shooting wheel weights in patched round balls for right on to 50 years. Managed to kill some stuff and win a few shoots.

 

[waksupi]

So much urban legend wheel weight myth nonsense that it's hard to believe folks actually believe it.

5 BHN and your ball is as slippery as goose poop.

9 BHN and it's a rifling resistance breech rupture just waiting to happen.

I really wish people would actually understand what their talking about before talking about it.

Ridiculous.

 

[Mogadishu Meanderer]

I have buckets of old wheel weights. I don’t hunt. I also don’t want to break a rammer. Will they work for a revolver? I am not concerned with expansion. I shoot targets.

They will not work on your revolvers and probably destroy every single one of them, so to avoid that, melt them in beautiful 1# ingots and send them to me! I will dispose of them properly in my ROA’s! Seriously, the WW will work fine if you load with a stand but if you want to load with the guns, cast on mold size under, use the .451 mold to make .454, and the 454 to make 457. The same applies for 36, they will be .378 from a 375 mold. I have shot literally 1000s of balls made out of wheel weight without a problem whatsoever and in some cases shot more accurate than pure lead. BTW, most of them shot with Pyrodex, you will be surprised how accepting we become when you can’t get anything else!

 

[Rifleman1776]

I haven't read the other responses but I'm sure you got a variety of opinions on this question. My tuppence is, yes, use pure only for this game.

 

[AlexB]

Use a cylinder loading press and its a non issue.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

I haven't read the other responses but I'm sure you got a variety of opinions on this question. My tuppence is, yes, use pure only for this game.

Interesting string I’ll reread it I could not melt the wheel weights in uk so gave it away

The rain tumbling down. I often thought of using kitchen foil for paper patching , just thinking outside the box. Well I did a couple as nothing else to do than watch the rain turned out rather good , even when sizing with 4 layers. Fits nicely in my 3 .x .5 rifles bores. More layers are fine it seems with the lead giving way in the sizer It’s theory for me as I lost my fire arms licence in my late 70s, might shoot intruders. Ha have. Don’t worry I have 2 pcp airguns . Why??? Maybe higher velocities , the foil might remain on the bullet till the target or act like an expensive sabot. Just a thought perhaps somebody will try it one day. , I leave it with you

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Interesting string I’ll reread it I could not melt the wheel weights in uk so gave it away

The rain tumbling down. I often thought of using kitchen foil for paper patching , just thinking outside the box. Well I did a couple as nothing else to do than watch the rain turned out rather good , even when sizing with 4 layers. Fits nicely in my 3 .x .5 rifles bores. More layers are fine it seems with the lead giving way in the sizer It’s theory for me as I lost my fire arms licence in my late 70s, might shoot intruders. Ha have. Don’t worry I have 2 pcp airguns . Why??? Maybe higher velocities , the foil might remain on the bullet till the target or act like an expensive sabot. Just a thought perhaps somebody will try it one day. , I leave it with you

Sorry collected a few guns over the years , not allowed to shoot them, I am 80 fit as a fiddle

I have a long long garden with plenty pigeons and squirrels, plus 177&22 bsa , scorpion airguns , shot all my life even in Nigeria , no animals there all got eaten ha h Scorpio air guns. So happy enough with my lot, but frustrated I cannot test my guns, Such is life in this green and pleasant land

 

[64Springer]

Ridiculous.

Go back and read the thread and you'll find that we're in agreement.

I was mocking the OP's opinion that 5 BHN is fine and 9 to 12 BHN is an accident waiting to happen.

 

[TDM]

Pure lead for muzzleloaders.

I get mine from Rotometals and don’t look back. Their supplies are about as pure as you can get to.
I get the fact that expense is a consideration.
The muzzleloaders are expensive also.
I choose to use pure lead.

That's what I do too.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Sorry collected a few guns over the years , not allowed to shoot them, I am 80 fit as a fiddle

I have a long long garden with plenty pigeons and squirrels, plus 177&22 bsa , scorpion airguns , shot all my life even in Nigeria , no animals there all got eaten ha h Scorpio air guns. So happy enough with my lot, but frustrated I cannot test my guns, Such is life in this green and pleasant land

I meant to add I tried one with four layers of kitchen foil with added super glue , sized then burnished it Got a nice aluminium jacketed bullet. Soft lead with high velocities ???? Makes a change from paper patching. How it sits with you folk is another matter, me just thinking out side the box I guess the foil will stay on to the target. Apologise if this little project offend you. Haha ha. Guess I am just mad at 80