It Finally Happened

[ppg1949]

To the Mods, if this is in the wrong forum then please move it.
I just got my latest email from the Indiana DNR. They are have opened discussions on several rules changes. The most important to me was the muzzleloading deer season change. The change requested would remove from the law “that muzzleloading powder be loaded only from the muzzle”. They sight the same BS that Traditions touts that their plastic cartridge allows a hunter to not to be concerned about the powder drawing moisture if the rifle is not fired for days at a time. Our most wonderful and all knowing DNR refused to call the powder container a cartridge. Rather it was referred to as ”a vessel” that contained the powder. It was only a matter of time, with Traditions dangling the thought of enhanced revenues in front of the rules committee. I guessing they didn’t tell the DNR that each “vessel” cost $5 a piece, not including the primers and bullets. Pulling the trigger on that rifle would be over $6 a pop. Before Traditions is done every state will allow this type of powder charging.

 

[10acres]

In Missouri they now call our season the Alternative Season. You can use BP, pistols(which includes AR pistols), Atlatl's. Basically you can use anything but a centerfire rifle or rimfire firearm.

 

[solitare1340]

Thanks for the heads up on new proposed muzzleloader law. Just went to Indiana Natural Resources Commission: Rulemaking Docket
and voiced my opinion about what a true muzzleloader is. Any other Hoosier interested has until February 12 2021 to make public response.

 

[andy52]

In Missouri they now call our season the Alternative Season. You can use BP, pistols(which includes AR pistols), Atlatl's. Basically you can use anything but a centerfire rifle or rimfire firearm.

Your right and a few other weapons including air rifles. I remember when Missouri first offered a muzzleloader season it was the real deal. In order to get the extra season you were required to hunt all deer season with a muzzleloader including regular firearms season. I thought it was great it weeded out the wannabes. If you were checked by a warden during regular season you better be carrying a muzzleloader if that's what it said on your tag. Then inlines started to show up and all that faded into the sunset.

 

[ppg1949]

Thanks for the heads up on new proposed muzzleloader law. Just went to Indiana Natural Resources Commission: Rulemaking Docket
and voiced my opinion about what a true muzzleloader is. Any other Hoosier interested has until February 12 2021 to make public response.

solitaire, thanks for the your answer. A year ago when I learned of this breech loader, I petitioned our DNR for a primitive season. I listed everything they required to be considered. Their reply was less than 10% of muzzleloader hunters used primitive firearms and a special season for less than 1500 hunters would be confusing to the already numerous deer seasons. As a fellow Hoosier, Skychief, stated how do they know it is 10% when it is not required info on the deer questionnaire at the check in station. The other thing is the Traditions rifle that takes those plastic cartridges requires a BATF form 4473 filled out at the time of purchase. I pointed out to our DNR, that if the BATF considered it a cartridge gun then they should regulate it to the centerfire rifle season.

 

[HiDesertHunter]

I am glad my state of Oregon has maintained a relatively 'traditional' ruling for ML seasons.

Early on although we had specific muzzleloader seasons there was no real defining characteristics of what a muzzleloader was but it wasn't really necessary as inlines had not yet came on the scene but as they did us traditionalists started seeing them in the field.

I can't remember the year exactly (late 90's if I recall) but prior to the start of ML deer season that year Oregon made a dramatic change and 'clarified' the legal description of a muzzleloader for all intents and purposes as what WE define as traditional.

It was an odd season that year as the woods were quiet with the only hunters out being those of us who were traditional rifle owners! It really PO'd about 75% of the hunters who only owned inlines!

 

[ppg1949]

HDH, before I started my petition to the IN DNR, I researched all the states that have a muzzleloader deer season. Sad to say there were only a few that have a true traditional season. If I remember right all were all were out West except Pennsylvania. Thanks for your input.

 

[andy52]

I wish Missouri had went that route. Early on a muzzleloader was defined as a firearm having a sidelock and of either cap or flint ignition. Then inlines came on the scene and there was a bunch of complaints about the rules, so on and so forth 30+ years later there really isn't a muzzleloader season but I can still hunt with one if I wish and I do.

 

[Squatch84]

HDH, before I started my petition to the IN DNR, I researched all the states that have a muzzleloader deer season. Sad to say there were only a few that have a true traditional season. If I remember right all were all were out West except Pennsylvania. Thanks for your input.

West Virginia has a primitive season, it's called Mountaineer Heritage and started yesterday.

 

[appalichian hunter]

Can see the disappointment in states not having a true muzzle loader season, but we have to realize that money drives the rules, therefore the in-lines are allowed, It becomes a mute point seeing as how most game department folks who set the rules do not have any ideal as to a traditional muzzle loader other than ya Davey Crockett used one of those. Answer is go hunt with your flintlock or cap lock and the hell with the rest of them.

 

[andy52]

Can see the disappointment in states not having a true muzzle loader season, but we have to realize that money drives the rules, therefore the in-lines are allowed, It becomes a mute point seeing as how most game department folks who set the rules do not have any ideal as to a traditional muzzle loader other than ya Davey Crockett used one of those. Answer is go hunt with your flintlock or cap lock and the hell with the rest of them.

your are correct money does drive the system and I can still hunt with a traditional rifle but seeing a person in the woods with a AR-15 pistol doesn't make much since to me.

 

[appalichian hunter]

Why as long as it is legal, there are coming days where we need to temper our tolerances and support all legal (for now) shooting, hunting and firearms related sports. Times are changing for all of us who partake in these activities our only re-course is to stand together.

 

[poker]

Money does drive the rules, but another factor is that no matter what the game is, some people will seek advantages and/or shortcuts. Business will quickly offer products to help them gain that edge. Most big business are members of associations who hire lobbyists to make sure their members products get sold. It comes full circle to money.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

We in PA suffer the onslaught of the in-line easy button hunters every year wanting free admission to our flintlock only season. They can't comprehend that harpoon guns are not archery and percussion and centerfire ignition in-lines are not flintlocks.

 

[Rudall]

As a poor ignorant Brit I don’t understand any of this at all. From reading the above it would appear that muzzleloader shooters think that they should have their own hunting season that doesn’t include more modern guns. Why do you believe you are entitled to special treatment?

Are muzzleloaders allowed to join in the modern season?

 

[Nazgul58]

Yes in Indiana you can use any legal muzzle loader during modern season. The muzzle loader season is after the regular whitetail season. It is nice, less people in the woods.
We are blessed with an overabundance of deer around here, they need to be kept to a healthy number.

So a poor ignorant Brit is questioning the intelligence of gun laws?

 

[Rudall]

So a poor ignorant Brit is questioning the intelligence of gun laws?

I don’t understand this comment. Where did I question intelligence or gun laws?
And my main question remain unanswered.

 

[Siringo]

As a poor ignorant Brit I don’t understand any of this at all. From reading the above it would appear that muzzleloader shooters think that they should have their own hunting season that doesn’t include more modern guns. Why do you believe you are entitled to special treatment?

Are muzzleloaders allowed to join in the modern season?

In Minnesota we have a separate bow season. Our Muzzleloader season is after the firearms season and the weather is awful, deer are skittish and generally is a waste of my time (I am referencing only my zone). So, I hunt with my flintlock during the general firearms season giving me the best chance to fill my tag. In my zone I have less than a 10% chance of getting a buck during the general season.

 

[nkbj]

Thanks for the heads up on new proposed muzzleloader law. Just went to Indiana Natural Resources Commission: Rulemaking Docket
and voiced my opinion about what a true muzzleloader is. Any other Hoosier interested has until February 12 2021 to make public response.

Thanks. I'll chime in with our DNR. Glad to.

 

[andy52]

I don’t understand this comment. Where did I question intelligence or gun laws?
And my main question remain unanswered.

I'll do the best I can to answer, here in the state I live in if you wanted to get the extra season of hunting you had to hunt with a "traditional" muzzleloader throughout the entire season basically handicapping yourself compared to modern firearms. Then inlines came along and didn't fall into the guidelines of traditional but do load from the muzzle so the rules were changed. The rules continued to change until there isn't a muzzleloader season anymore. I've never owned a inline and in my opinion they are not much different in their effectiveness compared to a modern firearm, they just load from the muzzle not the breach.