Jim Shockey’s Gold

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tg said:
My quess is it was the name Jim Shockey that ruffled most of the feathers he should definately not be a topic allowed here.


I think the topic is allowed I myself do not know much about the fella.

He does sound a bit like a salesman for his own stuff and I take the little I know about him in that light.
 
I also perfer black powder, but when supplies run a little low I save the good stuff for my flintlocks. I have a couple of percussion rifles that shoot Pyrodex just fine. I read on the forum here that Wal-Mart was selling off their Pyrodex till next hunting season. I went down there today and sure enough, $9.00 per bottle. Pick up four of them. Should keep me going until my next order of Goex gets in. I love Goex, but have no shame in using Pyrodex :thumbsup: .
 
It's lube for the Gold. I don't know the details, but it involves Murphy's oil mixed with water on the patches and allowed to dry. My friend did it the way they recommended and has no problems since. Looking at his bore after a shooting session, it still looks basically clean and a patch comes out smokey gray rather than black.

The little bit I tried with the stuff, I just went on using my normal lubed patches and cleaning. Seemed like black or pyro to me as far as the fouling went, so the cleaner bore and less fouling must have a lot to do with doing things their way.

Check the AP web site for lubing instructions. I bet they're there.
 
"He does sound a bit like a salesman for his own stuff and I take the little I know about him in that light. "

He has probably done more to promote modern ML gear at the expense of the traditional gear than anyone else in the last decade, he would have you believe that a Kentucky longrifle with a PRB is a substandard arm and load and is not worthy of taking into the field for hunting.Some one really should hang him from the short hairs...
 
tried it and it did not group in my gun, i tried the so called " 1000 shot test" and i started getting hang fires after 10 shots with out wiping in between. use the real stuff nothing works like it in the traditional guns, its cheaper,its what muzzleloaders were ment to burn and i got bad news for ya...all black powder is dirty!!!.
 
I tried it when I firwt started shooting! It fouls bad and couldn't get any thing resembling a group! Do yourself a favor and go with real BP. But if you just got to; try it and then try real BP and you'll understand why I say that!
 
This has been an interesting thread, the good information, aside from the bickering, is valuable info for those of us, BrownBear and myself specifically, who Can't legally get real blackpowder, due to our location. When you live on an Island 100plus miles from the mainland, you can,t legally bring it with you by plane or boat. The stores won't carry it because it takes knowing someone with an explosives licsence willing to deal with it and then find a special transport barge that is liscenced to carry it and willing to make the exception. Even our one and only fireworks dealer who has an explosives liscence, is not willing. So subs are definatly our only source "legally" of a propellant for our ML's, the joy's of Island living! vikingsword
 
BrownBear,

Googled to find American Pioneer web sight and read their FAQ page. Here is what they say about lubing patches ...

"Q. I shoot patched round ball. Should I wet my patch or load it dry?

A. As American Pioneerâ„¢ Powder creates its own moisture when burning, it is not necessary or desirable to wet down the patch. If it is tight, you can 'spit patch' the first one, but you should find that reloads don't even need that."

And ...

"Q: I see that the use of lube is NOT recommended with American Pioneerâ„¢ Powder and that it will actually reduce the results. Why shouldn't I use lube?

A: Lubricants used in muzzleloading have been added to ease loading and to help keep fouling down. Our products generate moisture when it is ignited, so it actually lubricates the barrel when you shoot. Loading will actually be easier than when using lubes. Also, our product produces only a very minimal amount of residue which does not build up. If lubes are allowed to come in contact with the powder, it can actually create fouling and lower performance when burned."

Here is the site URL ...[url] http://www.americanpioneerpowder.com/FAQ.html[/url]

So, is this all sales hype? Guess I'll just have to find out myself. Will none the less try BP down the road in order to compare and maybe just to stay more traditional.

Take care ...
 
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When I tried it I went ahead and used my normal lubed patches, and it seemed just like anything else I had used fouling-wise. Probably a sign I should have followed directions. They appear to have changed their recommendations, at least going by what you found on the site.

My hunting pard told me when he first started using the stuff it recommended wetting patches in a mix of Murphy's Oil and water, then allowing them to dry completely. He's in Equador for a couple of months, or I could ask him what the mix was.

In any case, I've shot with him and his patches are as dry as cleaning patches, and he never lubes them. Never seems to build up any fouling either. I pressed him about cleaning, and he said he just pulls and cleans the nipple now and then, and cleans the hammer to get rid of any cap fouling. If he remembers to do it. A couple of times a year or so. He's been using it for quite a few years now.

Hard to argue with what I've seen. He takes good care of his gear, and if it was causing problems I know he would change his sinful ways.

Like lots of other folks here, I'll use whatever is available in order to keep shooting. I've got about 15 pounds of Pyro I picked up from a friend's estate, and until that's gone I'm not likely to buy another jug of Shockey Gold or anything else.

I've got a little bit of the holy black, but use it mostly for testing while saving the bulk of it for my someday flinter. Of necessity I'll be building a smallbore flinter in order to stretch my meager supply of black. Cuzz there aint going to be any more when it's gone.

If anyone smarter than us can figure out how to get the real thing onto our rock sitting out in the Pacific Ocean, I'll be standing in line with about twenty other guys waiting to receive your generous donation. We'll pay shipping on the second load, but you're going to have to make all the arrangements and pay shipping on the first one before I'll accept any criticism from anyone for using subs.
 
Well I looked at the web site and read the instructions. or FAQ

As far as I can see it says

You STILL need to clean your gun after shooting.

You still need to lube your gun with some sort of oil or lube to prevent rust during storage.

It is a good idea to remove excess oil or lubes in the bore prior to shooting.

Still we have the ignition and delay questions etc etc

For PRB you do not need to use a lube since the powder generates so much moisture that it will fire proof your patch.

The powder generates so much moisture that you will get a build up of crud mixing with the lube you use.

I would assume that using a conical you would still need to lube to prevent leading in the barrel.

It says that all you need to clean up after shooting is water no soap or supper cleaners needed. That is the powder is water soluable.

Well I like the smell of BP but that asside is says that if you use a similar (identical) volume of powder you get the same basic velocity. So it is not faster.
 
Well, finally got to shoot my rifle yesterday and clean it this morning (got so envolved in shooting that I lost track of time. Got into the house and wife reminded of an appointement I needed to keep). Found that at least when shooting de-lubed conicals (Hornady PA 1/2 conicals for slow twist rifles) you'll want to run a patch maybe every 5-10 shots. Shot a few dry PRB but not enough in a row to see if PRB was more self cleaning than the conicals, maybe shooting PRB there would be less or no need to swab during a practice session? Cleanup this morning was a breeze with hot water - several pathces to pump water in and out of the barrel, several patches to dry and a couple swipes with a Traditions WonderLube patch and the barrel was clean.

Take care ...
 
I read the directions on the bottle about needing to clean the rifle after shooting. But not the part about not needing lub on patches. Using my normal bore butter I did get some pretty good groups with 100 gr of 2F American Pioneer powder out of my 54 TC hawken (1 inch @ 50 yd). I have not shot enough of it myself to say one way or the other as it is not my normal powder. Talked to some guys who had switched to American Pioneer in their cap guns at a local club shoot. The one guy who I talked to the most, was running it in his Traditons Crockett 32 cal rifle with excellent results. Some hear like to brag about placing an order for black powder, but a lot of people only want a can or two at a time. They also want to purchase it when they need it locally, without a hazmat fee!
 
Rat Trapper: If these guys are members of a club, the club can pool money from members to make up an order for a case or two of powder, split the Haz Mat fee, between the 25 lbs. per case purchased( or 50 lbs. if two cases are ordered, as its ONE HAZ MAT fee per shipment- the size of the shipment does not matter. Of course it would cost them a lot of money if they had to pay $20.00 in a Haz Mat fee to buy ONE CAN of powder. That would be stupid to do! I am assuming they are not stupid. They may not understand how the fee is applied, however. If you order 2 cases of powder, that is 50 lbs. into $20.00 or $.40 per can of powder in Haz mat fees. But you get the powder at rock bottom prices, you get enough powder to take care of you for a year or more, and its delived to someone's home very close to you, so you can just drive over and pick yours up.
 
Rember the only gold involved here is your gold going into Shockey’s pocket.
 
All the advice about real black may seem nice, but you guys need to READ what vikingsword said, because for them it's virtually IMPOSSIBLE - it's not just a matter of paying the Hazmat fee - there are other legal and logistal problems. For those who didn't read it here it here it is again:

....BrownBear and myself specifically, who Can't legally get real blackpowder, due to our location. When you live on an Island 100 plus miles from the mainland, you can't legally bring it with you by plane or boat. The stores won't carry it because it takes knowing someone with an explosives licsence willing to deal with it and then find a special transport barge that is liscenced to carry it and willing to make the exception. Even our one and only fireworks dealer who has an explosives liscence, is not willing. So subs are definatly our only source "legally" of a propellant for our ML's, the joy's of Island living! vikingsword

Living in the REAL wild is not so simple as some may think when having to deal with "modern" rules, regulations, and logistics. I lived for a while on an island north of Ketchikan so have some experience with that kind of living up north...
 
Good point, I was in AK 30 years ago and if the Bush pilot or the boat skipper did not want to haul it you did not get it, it was a pretty simple concept.There is no sin in subs if that is all you can realisticly get a hold of.
 
Rat Trapper,

The stuff about not using lubes is on their web site. They definately recommend that you do not use lubes with their product - info is in the FAQs section of:[url] http://www.americanpioneerpowder.com/.[/url]

I found one of the patches from the few dry PRB that I shot. There was a hole in the middle of it which I'm assuming got burned out because the patch wasn't lubed. The sides of the patch had what I guess was fowling from the previous shots but otherwise seemed OK.

Lots of stuff to learn here that's for sure!

Take care ...
 
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