Jim Shockey’s Gold

[bkisel]

Hi,

When I recently bought a used T/C PA Hunter (.50 cal., 31” barrel) the vender sweetened the deal by giving me a jar of FFG Jim Shockey’s Gold . Have any of you guys used this American Pioneer powder in your rifles? What do you think of it compared to other powders? Any special considerations or instructions concerning its use?


Thanks ”¦

 

[BrownBear]

Curiosity kills lots of cats, but I still try stuff just to see what's going on.

I tried it and didn't feel it performed any better than Pyrodex. If it was all I could get, I'd use it.

But there is one down side. Use it up quick, once you open the bottle. In our wet climate it runs out of steam about as fast as a politician forgets his promises after you elect him. Not new news, because lots of other folks have reported the same thing.

A bud was curious and chronoed his loads when he first opened a bottle, then again from the same bottle a year later. Initial velocities were 1700 and change. Same loads a year after the bottle had been opened hit the mid 1500's.

On the up side, another friend who loves the stuff has followed the lubing directions to a T. He's gone a year without cleaning his muzzleloader with no fouling buildup and no rust. Same water will float all sorts of boats.

 

[paulvallandigham]

GRRRR. :cursing: Now they have to give it away! That is what I think of it. Muzzle Blasts did an article on this within the past couple of years, if you go to their webpage, you might be able to find the article on the site. They compared this substitute to the others.

All the subs are second place finishers to Real Black Powder. Pyrodex, in powder form, is the best of the rest.

The others are based on various acid, mostly ascorbic acid, formulas, and ignite at much higher temperatures than does Black Powder. It can be used in some Percussion guns, but each gun seems to be choosy about what substitute you can use in it.

These seem to work okay in pistols and revolvers, probably because No great accuracy is demanded of most of those shooters.

Once the can is opened, and the powder is exposed to air, they tend to lose their powder. You want to use the can or jar up in one year, and not try to store part of a container over a couple of years. The same problem does NOT exist for Black Powder.

This is a Traditional Muzzle Loading Website. We don't discuss those zip guns that are being pushed in every chain store. Nor do we usually use much of the substitute powders. Don't believe it that you don't have to clean your barrel using the stuff, because that is a total lie. Most of the subs will attract moisture and cake up as fast or faster than Black Powder. The gun must be thorough cleaned with both soap and water, and then often with a solvent to remove modern priming waste, or plastice from the barrel. Its takes a lot longer to clean a modern zip gun, shooting the substitute powders and plastic covered bullets, than it does a Traditional side lock, using Black Powder. But all have to be cleaned. Otherwise, you have a lot of rust, and a ruined barrel at the beginning of next season.

For most hunting with BP firearms, the Patched Round Ball is not only preferred but is superior to bullets in the field. You will probably be told differently by the hucksters. Only when hunting dangerous game is a bullet called for, and you can still use a RB in a large caliber, if you use alloy lead to cast the balls so you get better penetration.

Welcome to the forum. You will get far better information about guns, powder, and accoutrements here than you will get from most clerks in sporting goods stores. Just read through the past few weeks of posts under any topic to see what I mean.

 

[BrownBear]

"This is a Traditional Muzzle Loading Website. We don't discuss those zip guns that are being pushed in every chain store. Nor do we usually use much of the substitute powders."

Sorry Paul, but I object to being classed with inline users because I have to use subs. If subs and their uses are unwelcome here, I'm gone.

Clean it up or I'm clearing out.

 

[Isiah1103]

I agree, pretty arrogant response to someone interested in getting good information. We may not shoot in-lines and maybe some don't shoot percussion...but good someone looking for info should always be welcome!

 

[paulvallandigham]

Brownbear: You know darn well you can order Black Powder and get it shipped to you even in Alaska. I know you use subs, and I know why. That is why I said " usually ". You will have to admit that the preferred powder for members here is Black Powder, and not even Pyrodex.

That is not being snobbish; its simply stating the truth, which is what I was telling this new guy. There are some members here who would prefer that NO mention of subs be made here, as they are not " Traditional". I am not one of them, although I am still waiting to hear of any sub that is actually a good replacement for black powder.

I only own one percussion gun- my 12 ga. shotgun. All the others are flintlocks. You can't use subs in flintlocks, no matter what the claims. Personally, my slow burn is over the fact that the manufacturers of these other powder don't seem to care that I have anything to shoot in my fllintlocks. That is just a " Rubs me the wrong way" kind of thing, and not any form of snobbery. I am the last person in the world you will find excluding anyone from anywhere. I don't even like hanging out with other lawyers very much, because so many of them need a enema daily to make them tolerable to be around!

 

[Claude Mathis]

"This is a Traditional Muzzle Loading Website. We don't discuss those zip guns that are being pushed in every chain store. Nor do we usually use much of the substitute powders."

Sorry Paul, but I object to being classed with inline users because I have to use subs. If subs and their uses are unwelcome here, I'm gone.

Clean it up or I'm clearing out.

Please do not mistake a members statement as Forum policy.

Although it's true we don't allow discussions of in-line firearms, there is nothing in our rules about black powder substitutes.
[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showrules.php[/url]

 

[boar]

Brownbear I agree with you. I myself got talk into buying a bottle of Clean Shot. I didn't like it and my guns didn't either. And it didn't keep good, clumped up. Have bought 1-2 bottles of Pyrodex in 25yrs. But if that was all I could get I would use it. And if I want to shot a max-ball I will. I have guns made for them that shot them better then PRB. And as long as it loads from the muzzle it is a muzzleloader. Dilly

 

[Mountainman56]

I use black powder substitutes frequently but I have never tried the powder in question. I have however had very good results in my percussion rifles with pyrodex select. I am not always willing (or allowed :grin: ) to buy enough black powder at one time to justify the exorbitant hazmat fees and it is not available in any stores within 300 miles of where I live. I'm workin on one day having enough local friends converted to traditional shooting that we can order a bunch of goex at a time and split it.

 

[bkisel]

Apologies to all ”¦

I see that I should have put this post under a different Forum; maybe “General Muzzleloading” under “Firearms/Weapons”. [see post script]

Not at all taken aback by the can of worms I may have opened. My first shooting sport love is archery and I made the mistake ”“ this was many years ago ”“ of asking about shooting carbon arrows from my longbow; man did I catch hell.

I’ll just experiment with this substitute and try black powder down the road.

Thanks ”¦

Ps.After typing this in Word before pasting here I noticed post has been moved. Thanks to whomever.

 

[brubincam]

before I tore both of my rotor cuffs ---I used a 55lb bear recurve with pin sights and aluminum arrows---worked for me--

 

[F.G. Ford]

I enjoy shooting my muzzleloaders anytime I can.
If I can't get Black Powder, I'll use a Sub type....heck I'd use propane...as long as it loads from the muzzle....that's good enough for me.
Most of us front-stuffers are getting squeezed out of the picture, with the disappearnce of black powder.
My reserve of black is running low, don't know what I'll do when I'm down to my last few pounds.
Probably make my own.
But we won't discuss that here.
Best Regards
Old Ford

 

[Soinkuhndog]

The cleanup was awesome, however...
for whatever reason, I couldn't get a group tighter than 6 inches from a bench/25 yards -- the results seemed to be all over the place. I switched back to BP and the groups tightened up (same day).
So, I've never used it again. I'm sure my results were not normal or the product would have never made it to the shelf, but something was strange that day.

 

[WV MZL HUNTER]

Welcome, honest this is a great site to find anything out you need to know. But every once in a while someone will open a can of worms AND this is one. I use 3f goex black powder in all my sidelock guns and the clean up is fast. But I also use black mag 3 and 3f triple 7 in the other guns that I don't use as often. :youcrazy: Everyone here has your best interest at heart.

 

[brubincam]

where do you get Black Mag 3? the price and the details of useing it...THANKS

 

[WV MZL HUNTER]

I get at a local Muzzleloading shop in Wheeling, WV. Gordons muzzleloading. Just a little home town shop. It is by far the cleanest powder ever I ever used. The price is high, the last time I bought it was around $28.00 a pound. Cabelas no longer handles it.

 

[spud]

I shoot six lbs.of American pioneer Powder a year in caplock Target rifles I don't have a problem with it. 2f is kinda grainy thou---spud

 

[F.G. Ford]

I think anyone, what opens a can-o-worms, should be strung up!
Then every one would agree with me!
Old Ford

 

[tg]

My quess is it was the name Jim Shockey that ruffled most of the feathers he should definately not be a topic allowed here.

 

[bart_anastasi]

Well here we go again.

Not for nothing I love these discusions.

Dont be offended if some store clerk gives you information he read in a book or advertising.

Sub products do not work as well as the real thing.

The store owner or salesman was jut trying to be nice and gave you a can of what he had.

Sort of like walking into a fish store and buying fish you can only buy what is in the shop.

The fella was doing you a favor.

These powders still require that you clean your gun.

Personally after two years in Germany with a Captian Romanas trying to find dirt in my M16 and my not letting him I take a great deal of pride in cleaning my guns.

It is part of what you do. If you find some one telling you you do not need to do this I would recomend reading any manufactures owners manual and taking their advice.

Maskers of powders trying to sell their stuff are probably not the people to ask about another companies product, Bp in particular.

Also I do not think Makers of powders are saying point blank that you do not need to clean your gun after firing it but and this is a big BUT.

They are allowing people to get that idea (on purpose) with the words they use in their advertising.