Jimbo's Underhammer

[BS]

Thanks for pointing that out. Yes, I have concerns about the weight. When finished, this rifle shouldn't weigh anymore than my .50 renegade flinter, which I carry during the PA primitive deer season. The underhammer action is very light, and the bigger caliber plus the taper should remove some weight. I'm going to equip it with a lightweight ramrod and a Safari Sling to make it easier to carry in the field.

I bet that taper would look really nice with a .62 cal hole thru it! :front:

 

[jimbo15563]

That will be barrels #2 and #3. I intend to have him build a .62 smoothbore for Turkey Hunting next Spring. Later on, I'd like to have a 1:66 PRB barrel just so I could make more noise and smoke than anybody else at the range! I can get them built in the same configuration without having to change forends.

By the way, here's the diagram, I'm sending him with the order:

Jimbo

 

[BS]

Here's a link to some Octagon-to-Round barrels at TOTW.

Colerain octagon-to-round

They are longer than yours and were used on early 1800's military flintlocks built at Harper's Ferry.

Jim, did you look at these barrels and see the taper on the octagon part? I would think that your barrel would look and balance much nicer if it tapered to about 1 1/16 at the 12". The forestock will be harder to make, but well worth the cost and effort. :m2c:

Please don't take this the wrong way, but the barrel that you are building would make a nice club too use on an attacking Grizzly Bear! :imo:

I am sure that the "Old Guys" that built these barrels tapered them for a reason.

 

[jimbo15563]

BS,
Thanks. I talked to both the gunsmith (Dave Stotler) and the barrel-maker (Ed Rayl) and they both agreed that this is the way to go. The new configuration is:

The anticipated delivery is September. The cost is $220 plus $35 for oversize (over 1 1/8 ")plus the charge for the 8 " stub + shipping.
Ed was very accomodating over the phone. It appears that he will build any configuration the customer wants. He doesn't require a down payment, but I sent him one anyway. I want to pay as I go, so the costs don't creep up on me at the end. Ed's contact information is:

W. E. Rayl
Box 91
Gassaway WV 26624
(304) 364-8629

Jimbo

 

[jimbo15563]

Choosing the loads 1.

I'm not real crazy about sabots. I never had bullet seating problems when I shot PRB or TC Maxi-Hunters. Then I bought that durn Omega. The first time I shot it, I used 777 and Mag Sabots. I felt like wrapping it around a tree. I've since worked thru those problems, but I still think sabot shooting is a pain in the butt.

I'm going back to basics with this underhammer. I ordered an 8" rifled barrel stub to be shipped along with the barrel so I can pre-groove the conicals. Bruce, at
Blue Grouse
casts them and will ship a sampler of different configurations at a very reasonable cost. I'll try these to find out which ones work the best.

I bought this nifty little gizmo from
October Country
It's a pre-luber made by TC which attached to a tube of bore butter. TC discontinued it because they'd rather sell you the high-dollar TC Maxi-Hunters. They are getting hard to find.

I'll probably try wonder-wads with the 3 types of powder I shoot (Goex FF, Goes FFF, and BM3) until I find out what works best.

Jimbo

 

[BS]

BS,
Thanks. I talked to both the gunsmith (Dave Stotler) and the barrel-maker (Ed Rayl) and they both agreed that this is the way to go. The new configuration is:

Jim, I was hoping that I didn't offend you with my suggestion, but I'm not good at keepng quiet. :winking:

I am sure that the new barrel will take any load that you want to give her, even the big magnum ones.

I'm going back to basics with this underhammer. I ordered an 8" rifled barrel stub to be shipped along with the barrel so I can pre-groove the conicals.

Dehass was nice enough to send the left over lenghts from my slug shooting barrels, so I made swagers out of them. The bottom insert matches the flat or conture of the base, and the punch matches the nose of the bullet. Three raps of the mallet and I have a nicley squiched bullet. Not sure they shoot any better than the pre-grooved ones, but they are fun to make! :haha:

I have been looking for the Maxi-luber, Thanks for the link!

 

[jimbo15563]

Underhammer Update

I'm looking a my H&A action from Blue Grouse. I have 2 breech plugs for it. One came with the action and the other I ordered from Bruce to accomodate the threading of a GM dropin barrel (which I subsequently decided not to use). I have ordered a custom barrel from Ed Rayl, and Dave, my gunsmith, will breech it for one or the other of these plugs.

The breech plugs stop when inserted. The plugs barely reach the Allen screws, leaving aboout 1/4 inch of unthreaded plug protruding out of the action. I believe that it's a slight imperfection in the hole in the action. Both plugs stop at the same place. I think it just needs a little polishing.

I have a question that concerns removing the barrel for cleaning and then returning it to its orignal position before tightening the Allen screws. This is important because I plan to have an action-mounted peep sight. Rather than putting register marks on the barrel and action as Bruce suggests, do you think that small indentations could be machined into the plug where the Allen screws hit it that would guarantee a perfect barrel position?

Thanks,
Jimbo

 

[jimbo15563]

Sorry, this is off-topic, but somebody asked for my bologna recipe. Here it is:

Jimbo's Jalapeno-Cheese Deer Bologna

Jimbo

 

[BS]

"do you think that small indentations could be machined into the plug where the Allen screws hit it that would guarantee a perfect barrel position?"

Yes it will work if proper location is used. If the divits are rearward, they could try to push the barrel out instead of pulling it in. :cry: You will need percise locations! You surley don't want a cock eyed fit either. :shocking:

 

[jimbo15563]

Choosing the Action IV

Recently a thread has started entitled:

Deer Creek Blues

I posted the following to that thread:

This thread is making me really nervous. I am in the process of spending a ton of money to have a custom underhammer built (see Jimbo's Underhammer).

I have already purchased a cast-iron action from Blue Grouse (whose supplier is Deer Creek). The cost of $125 is minimal compared to the rest of the rifle. I'd really hate to spend all that time, effort, and money only to find out that the action is the weak point.

The barrel has already been ordered with the breech 1.200 octagon to match up seamlessly with the action. It won't be ready until September, so I have some time to rethink this.

Does anyone know of an alternative supplier of underhammer actions? Numrich (E-gunparts) lists them of out-of-stock.

I think that when the barrel arrives, we ought to install the breech plug and nipple,and maybe bust about 50 caps as a reliability test.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

I would appreciate any and all feedback.

Jimbo

 

[jh45gun]

Their other kits may have problems but the underhammer system is so simple I would not be too concerned. When you get it and if you think the parts are not hard enough you can always reharden them. That would be my biggest concern. Jim

 

[jimbo15563]

I've still got another month befor my barrel is ready. Since everything is on hold until then, I'm reviewing options for the finishing work.

Pacific Rifle Company has their Zephyr website up and running again:

Pacific Rifle Company

From what I've heard, this is the "Cadillac" of the underhammers. They start at around $2000. I sent for 2 of their color catalogs (1 for me, 1 for Dave, my gunsmith)to see if we can get some fresh ideas. One thing I liked was that they blued the working parts and put them on a case-hardened receiver.

If anything comes out of this, I post it later.

Jimbo

 

[BS]

Choosing the Action IV

Recently a thread has started entitled:

Deer Creek Blues

I posted the following to that thread:

This thread is making me really nervous. I am in the process of spending a ton of money to have a custom underhammer built (see Jimbo's Underhammer).

I have already purchased a cast-iron action from Blue Grouse (whose supplier is Deer Creek). The cost of $125 is minimal compared to the rest of the rifle. I'd really hate to spend all that time, effort, and money only to find out that the action is the weak point.

The barrel has already been ordered with the breech 1.200 octagon to match up seamlessly with the action. It won't be ready until September, so I have some time to rethink this.

Does anyone know of an alternative supplier of underhammer actions? Numrich (E-gunparts) lists them of out-of-stock.

I think that when the barrel arrives, we ought to install the breech plug and nipple,and maybe bust about 50 caps as a reliability test.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

I would appreciate any and all feedback.

Jimbo

I guess that I miss the earlier post about the reliability test........WHY? ......just a waste of caps :imo:

Most important part is getting your nipple to fit the cap right. Tight nipples are bad, if the cap doesn't push all the way on, the hammer has to push it up, and then smash it. That is about the only way you will get a misfire.[if the hammer can't push it up], then the dreaded cock and fire AGAIN!

Too loose and the cap falls off, no big deal for target shooting, just pinch the cap and it will stay on just fine. After a while it will musharoom bigger and fit fine for a while, then it will need a file job to fit properly again. :results:

 

[dd832]

I was lucky enough to find one (Zephyr 20 bore) on gunbroker back in May. I couldn't resist it. It is a beauty and still had the original wood box and owners manual. The standard gun has a browned receiver (like mine), but the hammer & trigger & pivot pins are beautifully blued. Mine has a ported muzzle also. The mainspring inserts into the receiver in a thin slot. My guess is that the receiver is an investment casting. Good luck with your UH. Mike

 

[jimbo15563]

BS,

The fitting of the cap is accomplished by some light filing if it is too tight. If it is too loose, you dry fire it once or twice to peen the nipple. Is this correct?

Jimbo

 

[jimbo15563]

Speaking of caps, the Zephyrs from Pacific Rifle use musket caps. In fact, the 8-bore African Zephyr has a double nipple and uses TWO musket caps to fire the 300 grain charge.

Most of what I've read says that #11's are sufficient. I'm planning mike the tapered barrel where hammer will hit and then order a #11 custom nipple which will fit perfectly flush with the inside bore. The nipple will come from:

Blomquist Percussion Works

His $20 kits include 3 nipples, a pick, and a wrench.

Jimbo

 

[BS]

Speaking of caps, the Zephyrs from Pacific Rifle use musket caps. In fact, the 8-bore African Zephyr has a double nipple and uses TWO musket caps to fire the 300 grain charge.

Most of what I've read says that #11's are sufficient. I'm planning mike the tapered barrel where hammer will hit and then order a #11 custom nipple which will fit perfectly flush with the inside bore. The nipple will come from:

Blomquist Percussion Works

His $20 kits include 3 nipples, a pick, and a wrench.

Jimbo

The African model is one serious hunting weapon!

Are you going to put a 'splatter cup' around your nipple.

My nipples have 7/16" of thread, they are not the short side lock models, they are made for Underhammers!

 

[jimbo15563]

Yes, I'm thinking about the splatter cup. One reason is to use is as a rear stop for the ramrod, keeping it away from the nipple and hammer.

As regards the special underhammer nipples, where did you get them?

Thanks,

Jimbo

 

[jh45gun]

I am just using standard nipples with #11 caps and I am getting instant ingnition with my underhammer system. Jim

 

[BS]

TOTW sells them, "nipples", bottom of page 3 'underhammer' they have both 3/8s and 7/16" I like the long ones, because the thickness of my flash cups vary. I try to keep the hammer hitting flat on my different barrel sizes, so I have always used the long ones. Bronze or stainless.