Jukar Spain

[coloradoclyde]

Alden, they are gateway guns and we need more cheap (affordable) traditional muzzleloaders to help keep the sport/history alive.
Are they the best there is? No!
Should we throw them away? No!
Today’s Jukars, Traditions, CVA and similar cheap guns were like the trade guns of old, and who wouldn't die to have an original now.
Every gun manufacturer that I know of has made gems and junk!
At the end of the day we can all agree that we love muzzleloaders.

 

Okay, I just reread all the posts on this thread and you never called them junk. You only concurred with Rifleman 1776 when he said they were.
Now, I defy you to show me where anybody said they were, “A quality gun.” Several have said they shoot well. That doesn’t necessarily equate with quality. One poster did refer to them as, “a beauty”. However, as Rod Serling pointed out many decades ago, that is in the eye of the beholder.
To reiterate, nobody is putting Jukar rifles on a pedestal. They are simply saying they have one, it shoots well, and they have won matches against rifles generally conceded to be better quality guns. And, if bought for a reasonable price, they are a good value for the dollars spent.
For the record, while I have owned more than a few “cheapies” over the years I have yet to own a Jukar. But I would never rule out the possibility.
In reference to Rifleman 1776’s statement about the two piece barrel.
I learn something new everyday so it’s quite possible I’m wrong about this. But.
The only two piece barrel I’ve ever heard of wasn’t Spanish. It was Japanese. Specifically, it was a smoothbore on a model from Ultra-Hi known as the Minuteman Flintlock. Compared to the Ultra-Hi Minuteman, the Jukar rifle being discussed in this thread would come out looking like a very high quality piece indeed. The two piece barrel on the Minuteman ( not to be confused with the H&A/Numrich rifle that bore the same name) was half octagon/half round. This was achieved by screwing the round section into the octagon section. It was an idiotic way to make an octagon to round barrel, but if you try hard enough (think, get really, really drunk) you can understand why it was done.
The barrel on the rifle being discussed here is straight octagon. No matter how mentally impaired one makes oneself it is impossible to come up with a reason to make a long straight octagon barrel from two short ones.
As far as one hanging in a shop for years”¦”¦”¦
It depends on a lot of things. It’s possible that ANY traditional muzzleloader could have hung there for years unsold. Not all gunshops have the same clientele. There is one I know of where a good custom flintlock would sit there for years because the shop caters to lovers of black guns and inlines. In the case of the rifle that is the subject of this thread, it was in an antique shop. And, at 200 bucks, over priced for any conceivable use. Had it been priced at half that or maybe slightly more it probably would have wound up over a fireplace somewhere a long time ago.

 

[Alden]

Don't misrepresent what I wrote please Randolph! It was short enough to quote if you were honest, but that virtue seems to be escaping you entirely in this matter.


1776 wrote:
It is Sunday a.m., I won't lie to you. Might on a Monday, but not today.
"Jukar" is synonymous with "junk".
You paid the right price for it.
Clean up and enjoy your wal[l] hanger.

I replied:
Hate to say 1776 is sorta right in his own, usual, way.
They're around. I wouldn't pay for one...


Your opinion and defense, Randolph, of the Jukar's exceptionalism, is just that. And in the minority for good and rational reason.

I'll simply end my observations by saying that if someone has a nice, reliable Jukar that shoots very well, they are telling fish stories or are very lucky indeed.

 

[ChrisLJ]

Interesting, I guess Ardesa made my Traditions Hawken Woodsman .50 flintlock. I guess now after reading some of these posts I should hang my head in embarrassment and shame. Well, that ain't gonna happen, because I like mine and really don't care who does or doesn't approve.

 

Don't misrepresent what I wrote please Randolph! It was short enough to quote if you were honest, but that virtue seems to be escaping you entirely in this matter.


1776 wrote:
It is Sunday a.m., I won't lie to you. Might on a Monday, but not today.
"Jukar" is synonymous with "junk".
You paid the right price for it.
Clean up and enjoy your wal[l] hanger.

I replied:
Hate to say 1776 is sorta right in his own, usual, way.
They're around. I wouldn't pay for one...


Your opinion and defense, Randolph, of the Jukar's exceptionalism, is just that. And in the minority for good and rational reason.

I'll simply end my observations by saying that if someone has a nice, reliable Jukar that shoots very well, they are telling fish stories or are very lucky indeed.

First of Alden, is that your actual name? My name is exactly as I post it. Randy. not Randolph, Randy. I can live the differences in opinion but I try to be respectful, and if you are incapable of it please block my posts so you won't feel a need to respond to them.
Now to the subject at hand.
Rifleman's post, not in its entirety, but with the section pertaining to this discussion:

Jukar" is synonymous with "junk".
You paid the right price for it.
Clean up and enjoy your wall hanger.

Yours response in its entirety even though the first sentence is all that is required:

Hate to say 1776 is sorta right in his own, usual, way.

They're around. I wouldn't pay for one. A girlfriend had a flint pistol one I cleaned up as well as possoble that she would hide as part of her 18th C. portrayals -- a lady alone should always have a gun in the house we thought. Even if it was Spanish.

Forgive me for daring to misquote you. You only said he was “sorta” right. I’ll let you explain what parts he was wrong about. I’m guessing it must be the part about Jukar being synonymous with junk because you took exception with me saying you concurred with him right?

As far as questioning my honesty. Well, you have a lot of room to talk. You have insinuated that others have made statements that were never made. Nobody ever said they were quality guns, Nobody ever put them on a pedestal. And nobody, least of all me, ever said they were exceptional. They are what they are. Entry level muzzleloaders that many owners are happy with. Regardless of whatever stuck-up better than thou attitude you may have regarding a rifle they are happy with.

Feel free to kick me off here Claude.
This is the second time in a week I’ve had to go out of character for me. I don’t enjoy having to do that.
From now on I’ll confine my internet time to an unnamed muzzleloader site and my favorite woodworking board.
To the 99.999% of the folks I respect here, been nice knowing you.

 

[Andyd]

Chief Moonthunder,
I just wanted to let you know I enjoy the photos you post.
There was one of a deer skull you posted on one of my threads. Then the one of your CVA on here. Your house looks like a museum. :thumbsup: Whether they are authentic or decorative Im guessing they all are special to you. :wink:

Andy
AKA survivor45

 

[Terry Fairchild]

Hi Chief,
That Jukar you got looks good to me. I have seven muzzleloader rifles; Lyman, Thompson, CVA, Traditions.
The Traditions is a .45 Kentucky and that is the one I enjoy shooting the most. It's a good shooter, pretty accurate and a hoot to shoot. I would like to have a high end, custom built gun but my affordable collection gives me the opportunity to enjoy shooting and handling and just appreciating these neat guns!
I have a Cobra replica and sometimes get snobbish comments from naysayers because its not a "real" Cobra BUT to me it's a real sports car and, like my affordable muzzleloaders ,gives me a lot of pleasure both in driving it and appreciating the looks and feel of it.
While reading some of the posts on this ,and other muzzleloader websites, I sense that there are some owners of custom built guns that take a snobbish approach regarding factory built guns.Too bad.
Your gun looks good, take it out,make smoke and enjoy!

 

[coloradoclyde]

Breathe deep Randy;
Remember we are all very passionate about muzzleloaders, which is why we are all here
Personally I love snobbish criticism, when well reasoned I can learn something.
Out of this entire post/discussion/argument, I learned a couple of things I didn’t know.
That’s why I’m here ”¦to learn and maybe teach if I can

 

[Rick Son]

First off i can take sarcasm and good critisism,no problem,i'd rather here it rightout.So i gather by how much i know and have learned reading here,it will be a decent shooter when i get finished with it,if not it will be a great wall hanger and i can tell lies all day on it :grin:

As far as the pictures go,you are very right sir,there are some things very dear to me like the CVA.My nieghbor behind me was an artist like you can't believe,he made carousel horses out of scrap wood and i mean bueatifull,he made bronze statues of indians,buffalo,civil war,had them all over his house,made from the mold up,he could build awsome rifle stocks in his sleep,his old dad was a gunsmith,he had made a buffalo framed piece art from wood,i liked it alot and mentioned that would look good on my rifle,he said bring the stock over and he woodburned the scene of buffalo on it,i made him a big dreamcatcher,About a year later i played my harmonica at his funeral,yep ain't enough money to buy it.
Got my grandfathers old potbelly stove,i put battery operated candles in it with wood so it looks like it is burning,my other grandfathers handmade bill paying and domino desk is in here.I even have a few things in here from the classified here,i do apreaciate that comment it is a room of great memories,i'm a bit proud of it so forgive me if i post one now and then.
I apreaciate any and all info,heck i even got one of Ricks powder horns and i am very fond of it :wink: You might say i been collecting for awhile :grin:

A different artist friend~Ivan Jesse Curtis

OH YEA,last night went trick or treatin with my grand daughter~PUDDIN the PRETTY PIRATE&~THE DARK RANGER~I know you guys got pics lets see em
:thumbsup:

 

[Wes/Tex]

Beauty & the Beast for sure! That's one cutie and you're a lucky guy!! :hatsoff:

 

[Loyalist Dave]

To reiterate, nobody is putting Jukar rifles on a pedestal.

The reason I have one that's 30 years old is that nobody ever wanted to buy it from me. It has made for a good "loaner" rifle as it shoots well so the person who borrows it has a good chance of taking game, but if they lost it in the woods... I really wouldn't care. An aquaintence had one and wasn't paying attention. Left it on the bumper to his pickup truck... last he ever saw of it. :shocked2: His concern was that it was gift from the wife..., not for the actual loss of the rifle.

The kudos I gave for the accuracy wasn't because it was phenominally accurate..., it was that it shot good groups at all. :shocked2:

LD

 

[chazz1975]

Well said Mr. Johnson. I think some people are so unhappy that they don't feel right until they drag everyone down to where they are. They also forget how many start in this hobby.
It is also they who scare pepole away from this hobby, and it is
Them that will cocontribute to this hobby's downfall by driving new people away from it. I own a "Spanish" gun, two Italians and a T/C, as well as a custom built. They are all fun, and the "Spanish" is my hunting gun. What difference does it make who makes it? If it is safe, and you enjoy shooting it, then "more powder and smoke" to that person for getting in the hobby on the cheap. That "Spanish" gun got me into the hobby for $100 15 years ago, and it still puts lead to paper and makes plenty of smoke. I invite anyone that wants to try them at the range, from the "Spanish" up to my custom lefty Flintlock. They are all fun to shoot. Haters gotta hate I guess.

 

[Okie Hog]

When they were what most of us typically have experience with they were the kind of product that ended Spanish blackpowder manufacturing if not ultimately undermining their entire arms industry. Gone!

Hardly!!

Sadly, US tastes in blackpowder rifles have changed dramatically. CVA sells more Spanish made blackpowder rifles in the USA than all other makers combined. Those rifles are not the type we discuss on this site.

 

[mooman76]

Pictures are always nice. Like someone said a picture is worth a thousand words. I'll have to get off my butt some day and figure out how to post them myself.

 

[Rick Son]

:rotf: :bow:

 

[Rick Son]

Seems like everywebsite does it different,i been usin photobucket just becuase i'm used to it.When you click that little mountain sun picture right up there it opens a link bar with http in it,delete that from the bar and get the link from photobucket,copy it and paste that in the bar,it has it's own http,then click ok and the link shows in the post,click post and the picture is in your post.Easy if ya know how

 

[Rick Son]

Went with black just for the heck of it,actually used chalk paint black,steel wooled it with 0000,and sealed with a paste wax that is used for chalk paint.Couple more little details and decoration i'll call it good,looks better than it did anyway :wink: Stupid picture taker!

:redface: :redface: :redface: :redface: :slap:

 

[S.Kenton]

Never heard of chalk paint.. nor a paste that seals the chalk paint. Anyhow..looks good from where I sit! :thumbsup:

 

[Rick Son]

 

[Rick Son]

Some kind of new paint around here,all different colors,they redo antiques with it,alot of folks paint thier walls for kids rooms with it so they can write with chalk and wipe it off later,you can paint anything with it.Worked pretty good,i have to get a new rod for it and will paint it black and steel wool it so it has that used look. I got it all put back together and noticed i put the last rod catch backwards,now i'm headed back to it to fix it,SHEEESH!