Just picked up an '89 CVA Hunter-Hawken .50

[Bad Karma]

I assume you’re using a bronze brush with the MAP, and if you’re still seeing that much fouling you may consider using a plastic or lead specific solvent. Obviously they aren’t the same thing so there will be a bunch more elbow grease involved but if you’re patient I think it’ll pay off.

Yes rust remover really works, it’s also fantastic as a bluing remover so be really careful if you like the finish on the exterior of this barrel.

Once you’re finished with the rust and fouling, it may be time to address the crown or lack of one on that tube. Of course, if it shoots well as it is, don’t “fix” the crown...

 

[SDSmlf]

Here is a post from a while back explaining how I use EvapoRust.

I usually let it soak for 24 hours. Make sure no EvapoRust gets on any bluing. If you are just cleaning the bore and don’t want to harm the bluing, you need to find a way to hold the barrel vertical while filling it and to hold it steady while EvapoRust does it’s thing. I held the barrel in this photo with a woodworking vice mounted to the side of a bench before careful filling the bore to the top. One trick that I learned was to fill the barrel with water as practice run, then pour the water into small clear container. Mark the container on outside to show the amount of water held in the barrel. You then have a measuring device for the exact amount of EvapoRust you will need. Avoids mess of overfilling bore.

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[Rodney Johnson]

I always have a gallon of EvaporRust in the shop. Have some WWII items soaking right now. Does not remove pits and craters, but does get the rust. But DO NOT get it on any of the bluing unless you plan to refinish. Will wash the bluing away.

Likely not lead fouling. You wouldn’t get that from patched round balls, only conicals. Pure lead conicals that are lubricated usually do not leave a lot of lead in the barrel.

Oh, good. Thanks for the info on the EvaporRust, SDSmlf.

I was able to take a really bright flashlight and by shining it down the barrel (I had to put the face of the flashlight offset against the face of the muzzle and look down the edge of the flashlight - lots of people probably already know this, but I didn't and was glad to have figured it out, erm gotta give credit to my wife for showing me how to do this - credit given where due), could see that the general condition of the lands and grooves was not bad at all and everything is very shiny except for the circumference of the breech face which is a reddish brown - but it looks to be "new" rust - at least that is the color I am seeing.

 

[Rodney Johnson]

I assume you’re using a bronze brush with the MAP, and if you’re still seeing that much fouling you may consider using a plastic or lead specific solvent. Obviously they aren’t the same thing so there will be a bunch more elbow grease involved but if you’re patient I think it’ll pay off.

Yes rust remover really works, it’s also fantastic as a bluing remover so be really careful if you like the finish on the exterior of this barrel.

Once you’re finished with the rust and fouling, it may be time to address the crown or lack of one on that tube. Of course, if it shoots well as it is, don’t “fix” the crown...

Woodnbow - I haven't used a bronze brush yet. I went by 'bela's last evening and got a nylon brush and used that . Too worried about getting a bronze stuck down the barrel. Probably because (rookie confession coming up) the very second thing (after removing the scope tube from the mounting brackets) that I did to this rifle Wednesday evening was double dry patching the barrel and getting the ramrod stuck at the very bottom of the barrel. I put a bunch of light sewing machine oil (relatively cheap at WM) and some gifted WC Ultima down in there and after waiting all night and all of the next day until after work - it came loose. Whew!

The barrel isn't rusty inside, except or a bit down on the breech face which is the color of "new" rust (orange to red/brown) - and it is just a "ring" where I think the barrel and breech meet. But it's good to know that the rust and lead remover works well. I won't worry about removing bluing on the outside. Ever since seeing Cimarron's "antique" finish on some of their stuff, I have been entertaining the thought of taking the bluing off. But, then again, this rifle looks "worn" enough in spots that I may just leave it alone and let it "age" naturally.

Not sure what has been shot through this barrel, but I've only ever shot PRB over BP long time ago in my .45 cal. I just figured to use up the Triple Seven that I first bought here just recent because I couldn't find any BP and didn't actually know if folks even used real BP anymore (everything has sure changed since the 80's). I just didn't want $30 I spent to go to waste and figured I'd try it and see how I liked it.

 

[Rodney Johnson]

Here is a post from a while back explaining how I use EvapoRust.

Thanks SDSmlf! I'll check that out.

 

[Bad Karma]

Oh, good. Thanks for the info on the EvaporRust, SDSmlf.

I was able to take a really bright flashlight and by shining it down the barrel (I had to put the face of the flashlight offset against the face of the muzzle and look down the edge of the flashlight - lots of people probably already know this, but I didn't and was glad to have figured it out, erm gotta give credit to my wife for showing me how to do this - credit given where due), could see that the general condition of the lands and grooves was not bad at all and everything is very shiny except for the circumference of the breech face which is a reddish brown - but it looks to be "new" rust - at least that is the color I am seeing.

Thank God for wives, mine has bailed me out, (not literally you understand) more times than I care to admit...

I like the Triple 7 stuff, not as much as real Black but if I couldn’t get Black I wouldn’t sweat it at all. I like PRB for almost everything I do with front loaders, it’s accurate enough, powerful enough and yet it’s perfect for casual plinking.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Real black powder is still used. Its just a bit harder to find. With the federal regulations for handling black powder so restrictive, many local gun shops and a lot of larger sporting goods stores don't carry real black powder, only substitutes. You can order black powder by mail order for home delivery, but additional fees for handling of hazardous material are charged.

 

[Rodney Johnson]

Thank God for wives, mine has bailed me out, (not literally you understand) more times than I care to admit...

I like the Triple 7 stuff, not as much as real Black but if I couldn’t get Black I wouldn’t sweat it at all. I like PRB for almost everything I do with front loaders, it’s accurate enough, powerful enough and yet it’s perfect for casual plinking.

Yep! Sometimes I just sit there and think, "Now, why didn't I think of that! It's so simple!" Two heads are better than one!

And PRB doesn't "break the bank". I would like to shoot some conical pure leads someday just to see what they would do. And this "used" and perhaps somewhat "abuse" rifle might be the very one to do it with. But for the time being, I'm shooting round ball. The physics of the round ball "flying through air" is fascinating. That spin! Easy enough to see how a "rocket" shaped "bullet" would do that, but a round ball? It's interesting. I remember seeing the effect to some degree in Jr High when the 9th graders would throw the dodge ball at us lowly 7th graders, lol. Put a bit of spin on it, and it was bordering on "lethal"! LOL! They don't call it "dodge" ball for nothin'.

 

[Rodney Johnson]

Real black powder is still used. Its just a bit harder to find. With the federal regulations for handling black powder so restrictive, many local gun shops and a lot of larger sporting goods stores don't carry real black powder, only substitutes. You can order black powder by mail order for home delivery, but additional fees for handling of hazardous material are charged.

Fortunately I have found that the pawn shop where I bought this gun carries Goex BP for $30/lb - which is close to what I think I paid for the Triple 777. Don't remember for sure, but close anyway. And I've seen BP substitutes for a bit over that price too, so I guess that is not too bad a price. Good to know that I can get "real" BP though.

 

[Kansas Jake]

Rodney, from what you’ve found on the barrel condition, you will probably be surprised how well it shoots. I’d grab a pound of that BP from the local gun store and head to the range to see what it will do.

 

[Rodney Johnson]

Rodney, from what you’ve found on the barrel condition, you will probably be surprised how well it shoots. I’d grab a pound of that BP from the local gun store and head to the range to see what it will do.

That sounds like a good plan. I just found a cheap pair of heavy linen britches at my local Goodwill for less than three dollars (wouldn't fit me anyway) and did a pre-test fit of the ball in the barrel (I didn't push the ball in more than I could with my thumb) - it's tight enough to work well I believe. Should get a good couple hundred or more patches out of one pair. Good source of quality patches!

 

[Grenadier1758]

Well, the britches you've found at the Goodwill store may not be consistent in thickness from one purchase to the next. In fact thickness may vary from the seat to the knee. For less cost, I prefer the cotton drill utility cloth available from JoAnn's Fabrics. The thickness is consistent and the cost is similar if you use the online discount coupons.

 

[Critter Getter]

Welcome to the forum. Way back in the early 1980's I was an uneducated snob that looked down on CVA's. After all, I was toten a TC! Since then I have come to appreciate the fine accuracy of a CVA Mountain Rifle and a Hawken. Congrats on making a great purchase! Have fun and post often here! Greg

 

[azmntman]

Well said, I have 45+ years at this sickness and to date the most accurate rifle I own is a CVA!

 

[Black Jack]

Welcome aboard Mr. Johnson. You will certainly take some game with that rifle. The old CVAs shoot very well. The sling swivel studs you got on the gun will prove handy on a hunting gun.

 

[Rodney Johnson]

Welcome to the forum. Way back in the early 1980's I was an uneducated snob that looked down on CVA's. After all, I was toten a TC! Since then I have come to appreciate the fine accuracy of a CVA Mountain Rifle and a Hawken. Congrats on making a great purchase! Have fun and post often here! Greg

Thanks for the welcome Greg! I knew nothing about muzzleloading rifles back in '85 when I stumbled upon a "cheap" CVA .32 cal squirrel rifle kit and began to put it together in my garage (like many, I sold that rifle - and only recently realize that I kind of messed up doing so). I also finished putting together a .45 cal "Kentucky" CVA that belonged to a friend who subsequently "ran off" - never to be seen again (sent letters to home address after I got out of USMC - to no avail). That rifle shoots pretty good - I will never get rid of it. There are three T/C's available here locally that I've seen recently - two "Hawken" style .54 cals and a White Mountain Carbine in .54 cal. (21-22" barrel).

 

[Rodney Johnson]

Well, the britches you've found at the Goodwill store may not be consistent in thickness from one purchase to the next. In fact thickness may vary from the seat to the knee. For less cost, I prefer the cotton drill utility cloth available from JoAnn's Fabrics. The thickness is consistent and the cost is similar if you use the online discount coupons.

I've been thinking about how good this linen might work (or possibly not). I almost went to JoAnn's on the way home yesterday to look for some pillow ticking fabric (but the heat and humidity was brutal yesterday). I checked with one Walmart, but they didn't seem to have any there anymore - it's hit and miss anymore with WM for stuff. But I've seen ticking at JoAnn's and that is what I used to use before (long time ago). They built a new JoAnn's a lot closer to where I live now, so I'll have to go by and get a half yard of a couple thickness to test out what works best. Thanks for the advice - I appreciate it!

 

[Rodney Johnson]

Welcome aboard Mr. Johnson. You will certainly take some game with that rifle. The old CVAs shoot very well. The sling swivel studs you got on the gun will prove handy on a hunting gun.

Thanks for the warm welcome Black Jack! I thought about that regarding the sling swivels. I figured they might come in handy with a cotton strap for a sling when shooting targets as well. I might not be able to "cinch" it down quite as tight as I used to do with the ol' M16A1, but maybe good enough to get some stability if needed. I figured I'd sight this one in at 50 yds off the bench and bag to see how it shoots initially.

 

[Rodney Johnson]

Well said, I have 45+ years at this sickness and to date the most accurate rifle I own is a CVA!

Those "SPAIN" barrels aren't too bad. They are the only ones I have any experience with. I always wondered what a Green Mountain barrel might shoot like. Should have gotten one back a long time ago when they didn't seem so expensive. Maybe one of these days . . .

 

[Grenadier1758]

I've been thinking about how good this linen might work (or possibly not). I almost went to JoAnn's on the way home yesterday to look for some pillow ticking fabric (but the heat and humidity was brutal yesterday). I checked with one Walmart, but they didn't seem to have any there anymore - it's hit and miss anymore with WM for stuff. But I've seen ticking at JoAnn's and that is what I used to use before (long time ago). They built a new JoAnn's a lot closer to where I live now, so I'll have to go by and get a half yard of a couple thickness to test out what works best. Thanks for the advice - I appreciate it!

Linen from 100% flax works very well. You do need to look for a tight weave. Linen from flax is very sturdy and is a lot tougher than cotton pillow ticking. Modern clothing fabric weight can be a looser weave. Linen will be more expensive than cotton. Note: Jo Ann's has a lot of coupons available so you should never have to pay more than 60% of the retail price. Jo Ann's has a variety of materials. I like the cotton drill Utility cloth as it is one of the tightest weaves. They have pillow ticking, mattress ticking, denims and canvas. Take a micrometer or caliper to measure thickness.