Kibler Hawken update,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

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I like what he's doing to make it lighter. Tapered and slight swamp to barrel, which is in the short end of the range. Hollow underlug. Yes, the originals were often quite heavy, and club-like. But were carried on a horse and 3 month's ride back to a town if something were to break, so they needed to be. We walk now, I will appreciate lighter.
 
I’ve always been a huge fan of Kibler and have the utmost respect for their craftsmanship and innovation. That said, I’m finding it difficult to get excited about this latest release. The market already seems flooded with percussion half-stock rifles and kits, making it feel less distinctive compared to Kibler’s other offerings. While I’m sure the quality is top-notch as always, it’s hard to ignore how many similar options are already out there. I was hoping for something a bit more unique or groundbreaking to set this one apart. Is anyone else here feeling the same way I am?
 
Here is the update from Kibler hisself


That’s exactly what I expected Jim to put out…a “Jim Bridger” style Hawken with hints of earlier made guns…a simple oval patchbox per MHS as an option would be awesome…. I think it’s excellent.
Now I’m following to see who nit picks it to shreds….and….go…
 
I’ve always been a huge fan of Kibler and have the utmost respect for their craftsmanship and innovation. That said, I’m finding it difficult to get excited about this latest release. The market already seems flooded with percussion half-stock rifles and kits, making it feel less distinctive compared to Kibler’s other offerings. While I’m sure the quality is top-notch as always, it’s hard to ignore how many similar options are already out there. I was hoping for something a bit more unique or groundbreaking to set this one apart. Is anyone else here feeling the same way I am?
Me personally no. I am going to sell off my production Hawken GPRs of which one is a flintlock to fund the Kibler. I like that he is trying to make it a bit lighter. Mine all weigh well over 9 lbs and at 74 years old, they are starting to get a bit heavy while walk hunting. I feel that if a person doesn't like Kibler's Hawken, they don't have to buy one. I don't like his Colonial therefore I will not buy one. I do like the SMR, therefore I bought a kit from him. It is all about choice and market. He wouldn't have put this much effort into a project that will not make him money.

I would like for Jim to produce a pistol. I noticed one on his desk while watching the video. He may be researching something like that. Hope he does because I don't care for the Lyman or any other that is out there.
 
Me personally no. I am going to sell off my production Hawken GPRs of which one is a flintlock to fund the Kibler. I like that he is trying to make it a bit lighter. Mine all weigh well over 9 lbs and at 74 years old, they are starting to get a bit heavy while walk hunting.

Fair point. But honestly, do you think a pound or two is going to revolutionize the game? I wouldn’t bet on it.

Now, don’t get me wrong—Jim’s a smart guy. I agree that he wouldn’t invest time and resources into launching this new project unless he saw some serious potential in it. He’s no stranger to spotting a good opportunity. That said, it feels like this move is aimed more at drawing in newcomers to the hobby rather than catering to his loyal, established customer base. It’s almost like a gesture to bring in fresh blood rather than offering something groundbreaking for those who’ve already been along for the ride.

Most of the guys I run with haven’t touched a percussion gun in a decade or more and have no intention of going back— particularly given the cost and relative scarcity of caps.
 
Me personally no. I am going to sell off my production Hawken GPRs of which one is a flintlock to fund the Kibler. I like that he is trying to make it a bit lighter. Mine all weigh well over 9 lbs and at 74 years old, they are starting to get a bit heavy while walk hunting. I feel that if a person doesn't like Kibler's Hawken, they don't have to buy one. I don't like his Colonial therefore I will not buy one. I do like the SMR, therefore I bought a kit from him. It is all about choice and market. He wouldn't have put this much effort into a project that will not make him money.

I would like for Jim to produce a pistol. I noticed one on his desk while watching the video. He may be researching something like that. Hope he does because I don't care for the Lyman or any other that is out there.
and anything on the market now in production or kit form sux! as far as why he's doing a Hawken, folks in the hobby have been bothering him for it!
 
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and anything on the market now in production or kit form sux! as far as why he's going a Hawken, folks in the hobby have been bothering him for it!
There’s probably some truth to that (though I’ve generally heard very good things about The Hawken Shop kits, but I digress). But at the same time, I’d be willing to bet good money that no one saw the “percussion” twist coming. Let’s be real—most were crossing their fingers and hoping it would follow a flintlock design. That’s where the real excitement is for many in the community. For a great deal of folks, flintlocks carry that classic, old-world charm and a sense of tradition that percussion just doesn’t quite capture. So, while this direction might make sense to some, it’s safe to say it’s left a few people scratching their heads, wishing for something that felt a little closer to the roots of the hobby.
 
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I just watched his new video. I have to say, initially while curious about the Hawken endeavor, I wasnt...thrilled. I have three Hawken wannabees, (Lyman and Pedersoli) which I enjoy alot, and dont figure I had room or need for another. But what he is talking about I am very interested...certainly upscaling what I have, keeping the weight down and giving it a bit of class. I would be carrying and shooting it alot....so the weight is very important. I am not so concerned with it being a god certified mirror image of a Hawken shop arm, but a highly shootable faithful to the purpose built rifle I would need and want. I think he is hitting it. Good chance though I would have to do something with the sights...like so many of us.
 
I think if I was going to pick just one Hawken, it would be the Kit Carson Hawken. It has the short barrel that many would want with nothing fancy added and is considered by many to be the highest form of Hawken. I think that fooling around with the stock and buttplate shape and fancying up the front of the trigger guard etc. is gonna put it in the realm of the much maligned (and rightfully so) Thompson Center attempt at a Hawken. The finial shaped areas remind me of some of the Italian attempts to fancy up certain muzzleloaders that fail to hit the mark and hurt sales. I'd buy a virtual copy of the Carson Hawken and one for each of my kids, but one with the proposed changes I'd avoid like the plague. I understand lengthening the pull as an option and shorter barrels too since there is one original with a 29" 9/16 barrel, but I'm hoping that the made-up fancy stuff is optional too. I have nothing but respect for Jim, but I think he's starting lean in the wrong direction.
 
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Being this forum is full of members who LOVE the rock lock long rifles I can see why Kibler offering a Percussion gun is making some scratch their heads. But IMO Jim and crew are spot on for offering something that busts a cap. He even said it himself in the new video, Not EVERYONE wants a flintlock, like it or not. This is the right move for a traditional muzzle loader manufacturer. If it wasn't the big names that sold BOAT LOADS of them in the past would have only offered a Flint lock. Who knows he may offer the Hawken in a Flint at some point too. I myself am going to buy one. Having his rifle is more important to me than having an Import. Just my .02 may be worth less, who knows.
 
Being this forum is full of members who LOVE the rock lock long rifles I can see why Kibler offering a Percussion gun is making some scratch their heads. But IMO Jim and crew are spot on for offering something that busts a cap. He even said it himself in the new video, Not EVERYONE wants a flintlock, like it or not. This is the right move for a traditional muzzle loader manufacturer. If it wasn't the big names that sold BOAT LOADS of them in the past would have only offered a Flint lock. Who knows he may offer the Hawken in a Flint at some point too. I myself am going to buy one. Having his rifle is more important to me than having an Import. Just my .02 may be worth less, who knows.
I guess if Jim's goal is to just offer a generic somewhat historically correct caplock rifle, that won't be a problem for him, he's already halfway there.
 
There’s probably some truth to that (though I’ve generally heard very good things about The Hawken Shop kits, but I digress). But at the same time, I’d be willing to bet good money that no one saw the “percussion” twist coming. Let’s be real—most were crossing their fingers and hoping it would follow a flintlock design. That’s where the real excitement is for many in the community. For a great deal of folks, flintlocks carry that classic, old-world charm and a sense of tradition that percussion just doesn’t quite capture. So, while this direction might make sense to some, it’s safe to say it’s left a few people scratching their heads, wishing for something that felt a little closer to the roots of the hobby.
The cap problem has been going on for 3 years now, how many original Hawkens are rock locks? 2? want the roots of the hobby, there are plenty of rock lock rifle guns and halfstocks to emulate
 
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