Kibler kit assembly and carving

[dave_person]

Hi,
A forum member asked me if I would assemble and decorate a Kibler colonial rifle kit. I agreed to do it because, although I am familiar with the kits and examined them closely, I've never built one. So I decided to take on the project. The Kibler kit is phenomenal. Jim and Katherine anticipated every need and designed the kit so it could be built on a kitchen table by someone with very few tools and skills. You have to work really hard to ruin one of these kits. Anyway, so I got the kit late Saturday and opened the box Sunday morning. I then got to work on it at 7:30AM on Monday and almost finished the entire assembly by 5:00 PM. All that remains for assembly is pinning the nose cap, installing the sights, and fitting the ramrod. The time required included 2 walks of my dog Willow, a 45 minute phone conversation with the client, some play time with Willow, lunch, a short nap after lunch, and a grocery run. I don't think it took me more than 4.5 total hours of gun work to assemble the gun with the most time consuming task making and fitting the brass plate on the end of the patch box. I have not fitted the trigger guard and won't until all detailing of the stock architecture is done. However, it would only take me 15 minutes or so to fit it. Here is the rifle.

So the next step is how do I turn this common and mass produced canvas into my own signature piece. I can only do so much because the architecture is fixed by Kibler. Let's see what happens.
dave

 

[PathfinderNC]

I'll bet some lovely carvings lay underneath that smooth wood surface!
Interesting Dave that you installed the sights after the barrel was attached (or did I misread?). I have put in the sights first then put the barrel on, merely because drifting the sights into the dovetails required the barrel well clamped in my vise. Maybe I am learning something new...
Nonetheless, looking forward to future episodes of this build

 

[zerosprk]

Dave, I know that I'm not alone when I say that when you post stuff, I pay attention!

You are a master builder and I can't wait to see how this transitions into the work of art that I know it will soon become.

 

[Brokennock]

I'd be curious as to what it weighs now and what it weighs when you are done. I'm betting in the end she is a trimmer, leaner version of herself.

 

[Osseon]

Dave, I know that I'm not alone when I say that when you post stuff, I pay attention!

You are a master builder and I can't wait to see how this transitions into the work of art that I know it will soon become.

This is why I asked him if he would be interested in doing this rifle. I spoke with a few builders on the phone before Dave, but he was the person that I could truly hear the passion he has for the craft. It was a no brainer in the first 2 minutes of the conversation.

 

[Codger Craig Wilcox]

Four and a half hours? Dave, I would have expected more like an hour and 20 minutes, fully carved!
I love that Kibler lock - gorgeous to look at and a real sparker.
So now you will have to come up with a design/motif, and use tomorrow for carving. Envious of your talent.

 

[dave_person]

Four and a half hours? Dave, I would have expected more like an hour and 20 minutes, fully carved!

Hi Craig,
I think you are confusing me with Brooksie. Thanks for the vote of confidence.

dave

 

[Codger Craig Wilcox]

Brooksie is still looking for his canoe gun. He needs a "Smart Dog".

 

[dave_person]

Brokennock,
It weighs about 7-8 lbs and it won't get much lighter. You cannot change much on these kits because most extra wood is already taken off and all the holes for all pins are drilled. If I had my choice, I would slim the rifle on the bottom at the trigger and at the end of the barrel tang. But I cannot touch the bottom and can only take a little off the top. If you look at the photo above showing the lock, you can see that the top of the stock just behind the flintcock is thick above the lock and seems a bit bulbous to me. That is were I will focus my eye for design but it may be resolved simply by the carving around the barrel tang.

By the way, folks asked in other threads what period style the rifle best represents. I just had an original 1789s-1800 English fowler in my shop that is the spittin' image of the Kibler minus the cheek piece. Comparing it to rifles shown in the RCA volumes, it looks to me most similar to RCA#s 108, 114, 115, and 131. Those could all be northern Virginia guns including one attributed to Adam Haymaker of Winchester. However, the English influence is very clear to me. Regardless of historical inspiration, it is a style that Jim Kibler developed for some of his best custom work. So the down side is you cannot make it into something much different but the upside is Jim offers you the best of his own designs which is not a bad thing at all.

dave

 

[dave_person]

Hi PathfinderNC,
I'll remove the barrel when installing the sights. I make sure all barrel pins are easily removable because I believe you should remove your barrel at least once a year to check for corrosion underneath. I don't buy the notion of never removing a pinned barrel. In my case, I make the pins a little short so when tapped in flush with one side of the stock, the pin is short of flush on the other. That leaves a little hole that can guide a pin punch to tap the pin out without risking it sliding off the pin and damaging the stock. Both ends of my barrel pins are chamfered slightly so they don't catch any wood when being removed or installed. I was made aware that there is some "advice" circulating among some owners of Kiblers that you should never remove the lock for cleaning after shooting and because the fit is so tight, you don't ever need to. This is nonsense. The fit of parts on a Kibler kit are no better than what I achieve on all my guns and I remove the locks after every shoot because it is easiest to thoroughly clean the barrel by the vent hole, and lock pan, flintcock, and frizzen, and stock around the lock by taking out the lock. If your lock on a Kibler or any gun is so tight that you worry about wearing the mortice or chipping wood if you remove it, the mortice is too tight. What you've likely done, is fit the lock tightly in the machined mortice and then when finish is applied, the wood swells and the lock is really tight as a result. No part on a Kibler kit or any gun should need to be tapped in with a mallet before finish is applied. Everything should go in place with finger pressure. On this kit, I gently scrape the edges of every mortice to make sure all parts fit in with just finger pressure.

dave

 

[Capnball]

Hi,
A forum member asked me if I would assemble and decorate a Kibler colonial rifle kit. I agreed to do it because, although I am familiar with the kits and examined them closely, I've never built one. So I decided to take on the project. The Kibler kit is phenomenal. Jim and Katherine anticipated every need and designed the kit so it could be built on a kitchen table by someone with very few tools and skills. You have to work really hard to ruin one of these kits. Anyway, so I got the kit late Saturday and opened the box Sunday morning. I then got to work on it at 7:30AM on Monday and almost finished the entire assembly by 5:00 PM. All that remains for assembly is pinning the nose cap, installing the sights, and fitting the ramrod. The time required included 2 walks of my dog Willow, a 45 minute phone conversation with the client, some play time with Willow, lunch, a short nap after lunch, and a grocery run. I don't think it took me more than 4.5 total hours of gun work to assemble the gun with the most time consuming task making and fitting the brass plate on the end of the patch box. I have not fitted the trigger guard and won't until all detailing of the stock architecture is done. However, it would only take me 15 minutes or so to fit it. Here is the rifle.

So the next step is how do I turn this common and mass produced canvas into my own signature piece. I can only do so much because the architecture is fixed by Kibler. Let's see what happens.
dave

Take your time. Select the embellishments then research the process. Practice on some scrap first . Seriously sharp tools! And the most important tip, take your time! Looks awesome so far. I'm jealous!

 

[dave_person]

Hi Capnball,
Thanks for that great advice! I originally wanted to photograph most steps as I did them but then I'd do a task and decide to do another before setting up the camera. But then I finished that in a few minutes and decided well, I'll just do one more. Before I knew it, the gun was assembled and I never set up the camera! All the pin holes are predrilled so I installed all the pipes and the barrel then went down one side of the stock and drilled all the holes and then turned the stock around and drilled them all again from the other side. I think it took me 5 minutes to drill all the holes. I felt like one of those robotic drilling machines. I even made little robot noises as I moved from one hole to the next.

dave

 

[Brokennock]

If you look at the photo above showing the lock, you can see that the top of the stock just behind the flintcock is thick above the lock and seems a bit bulbous to me. That is were I will focus my eye for design

That is exactly the spot that made me think the gun would be entered into the, "100% guaranteed success Dave Person longrifle weightloss plan."

 

[Capnball]

Hi Capnball,
Thanks for that great advice! I originally wanted to photograph most steps as I did them but then I'd do a task and decide to do another before setting up the camera. But then I finished that in a few minutes and decided well, I'll just do one more. Before I knew it, the gun was assembled and I never set up the camera! All the pin holes are predrilled so I installed all the pipes and the barrel then went down one side of the stock and drilled all the holes and then turned the stock around and drilled them all again from the other side. I think it took me 5 minutes to drill all the holes. I felt like one of those robotic drilling machines. I even made little robot noises as I moved from one hole to the next.

dave

Those nuts are famous for being really complete and accurate. Don't let it lull you into a false sense of confidence. If you've never done relief carving, don't practice in the gun, buy another piece of wood and practice. Watch videos, read books and talk to people who've done it. I'd love to see progress picst.
Neil

 

[dave_person]

Hi Capnball,
No worries about decorating the rifle my friend. I've got the chops for this job.

dave

 

[Brokennock]

Those nuts are famous for being really complete and accurate. Don't let it lull you into a false sense of confidence. If you've never done relief carving, don't practice in the gun, buy another piece of wood and practice. Watch videos, read books and talk to people who've done it. I'd love to see progress picst.
Neil

 

[Codger Craig Wilcox]

Dave has long been noted for his fine longrifle building and carving. He is generally whom I emulate when I try the same, but my shaky old paws just can't do what seems so natural with his work.

 

[Capnball]

Hi Capnball,
No worries about decorating the rifle my friend. I've got the chops for this job.

dave

Oh yes you do Obiwan. Just beautiful. Glad I could help, lol
Nos I know who to go to when I need a pointer or two.......or twelve
Neil

Dave has long been noted for his fine longrifle building and carving. He is generally whom I emulate when I try the same, but my shaky old paws just can't do what seems so natural with his work.

Just looking at the pictures is enough. Thoroughly entertaining.

 

[Spikebuck]

If I had my choice, I would slim the rifle on the bottom at the trigger and at the end of the barrel tang. But I cannot touch the bottom and can only take a little off the top. If you look at the photo above showing the lock, you can see that the top of the stock just behind the flintcock is thick above the lock and seems a bit bulbous to me. That is were I will focus my eye for design but it may be resolved simply by the carving around the barrel tang.

Dave, I will be interested to see what you can do from a decorative standpoint that improves that area and makes it look slimmer. It's the one thing I have not liked about this particular kit from Jim. To my eye, the areas you are pointing out just look too thick. But as you said, it's hard to do much to remove wood because of the way the kit is.

I have both M Brooks and L Williams rifles in this basic "Virginia" style and in both cases the cross section of the wrist is oval (wider across the top/bottom than the sides) which gives them a nice sleek look from the side while providing strength in the wrist for a larger bore hunting rifle. I'm not educated enough in how the original masters of this style shaped the wrists to appear more sleek from the side. Was the oval cross section as I've described common in certain "schools" or areas of the country?

 

[brazosland]

I am curious Dave about your thoughts on wether this rifle would be more correctly fitted with a metal patch box instead of the wooden lid?

I always have seen the wooden patch box as a way to suggest the rifle is from the pre 1770 time frame while the architecture is more appropriately later. I am not an expert at this at all...but I am trying to learn as fast as I can!