Kibler vs. TVM.

[James Kibler]

If we felt it was cracked as you received it, we would have stood behind our product.

After researching the issue, it seems we felt the crack was a result of your assembly work.

I just reviewed your email thread and you asked for assistance which we provided. It was clear from the picture you provided that the crack was a result of your work.

The customer never followed up or asked for additional assistance after he was given advice. We gave advice based on the information presented and we never felt it was a result of our faulty workmanship. Not once did the customer even suggest a replacement stock.

If a customer breaks a stock in the manner during assembly, using wood glue is a very good way to repair the problem

 

[Frontstuffer3491]

My experience with Killer has been different from all others, which tells me the problem is me, not the kit. I wish I had purchased in the white or a completed TVM. I've had the kit a few weeks but am just now completing Step 2 from Jim's videos. Mine is going together nothing like I thought. I had real trouble fitting the tang. Then I stupidly took the lock apart like the man did in the vid. I thought I'd never get it put back. I letting the lock was easy and it fits tight against the barrel, but the rear most bolt will NOT align with the lock hole. Almost though. No obstruction is apparent, but color on the end of the bolt shows it to be making contact just barely too far forward. I sort of "sharpened" the bolt (filing the leading edge lightly) but still can't get it to meet the lock's thread. One would think my inletting job is askew, but no, it fit perfectly with very little wood removal. I will eventually get it but for now I'm stuck. I've thought about asking Jim if I could send it back and get him to examine and finish in the white.

If you bring the lock out of its seating and then thread in the lock screw then tighten the screw down it will draw the lock into place as you carefully do this. Repeat this a very few times and your screw will then fit very well.

 

[Joemolf]

I have the e-mail to back up my claim sir.


You can try to clamp the stock with the barrel in place and use a piece of paper to apply wood glue into the crack. Then let it dry and it should be fine after that! This is from the e-mail.
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That’s some pretty bad workmanship! Lol who installed those ramrod tubes both cockeyed and the pin whole is butchered. Like Clint Eastwood said a man has to know his limitations. Should have asked someone to finish it for you! How did that muzzle get so severely cracked? Good grief!

 

[Joemolf]

If we felt it was cracked as you received it, we would have stood behind our product.

After researching the issue, it seems we felt the crack was a result of your assembly work.

I just reviewed your email thread and you asked for assistance which we provided. It was clear from the picture you provided that the crack was a result of your work.

The customer never followed up or asked for additional assistance after he was given advice. We gave advice based on the information presented and we never felt it was a result of our faulty workmanship. Not once did the customer even suggest a replacement stock.

If a customer breaks a stock in the manner during assembly, using wood glue is a very good way to repair the problem

Mr Kimbler Sir there is no reason you have to defend yourself to us on this forum! I would block this member! We know exactly what is going on here!

 

[Joemolf]

Just an FYI.. my Kibler SMR came with a crack in the stock at the end of the barrel channel. Took about 3 seconds to turn into a giant crack... Reported it.. told to just glue it together. My TVM is a work of art.

You cracked the Kimbler and were looking for a hand out! You also screwed up the inlet pipe installation and messed up the pin hole! You have some gall.did you screw anything else up? Your TVM may look good but like I said earlier if you don’t mind a glued on butt plate and most likely no slots in the barrel tabs you’re destined to having it crack at some point maybe they used dryer wood that won’t shrink so much. All wood expands and contracts but I witnessed was very bad. Shame on them!

 

[Joemolf]

I have the e-mail to back up my claim sir.


You can try to clamp the stock with the barrel in place and use a piece of paper to apply wood glue into the crack. Then let it dry and it should be fine after that! This is from the e-mail.
View attachment 250877

Did you crack the stock in half trying to fit that ramrod thimble? Come on be honest! I screw stuff up all the time but I don’t blame others! I built an SMR Kimbler rifle you need to be very careful that stock with no barrel is very delicate. Most of the inletting is done just some very minor fitting. You have to be gentle and careful with any of these flinters .

 

[Snydly]

I’ve never heard of that kind of thing. I’ve heard of guys who can’t build a Kibler kit because they know everything, but even then, the company seems to help them. I’m guessing that you’re one of those snarky trolls embellishing a tale. There’s a lot here. I think you made this up.

So .. you seem to be calling me a liar. Well I am not. If you look at some of my other posts you will see the picture of the crack in the stock and the exact quote that I got concerning the glueing of the wood. You would be better served if you were to get your facts straight before you make a couple idiot of yourself.... If that is possible!

 

[Snydly]

If we felt it was cracked as you received it, we would have stood behind our product.

After researching the issue, it seems we felt the crack was a result of your assembly work.

I just reviewed your email thread and you asked for assistance which we provided. It was clear from the picture you provided that the crack was a result of your work.

The customer never followed up or asked for additional assistance after he was given advice. We gave advice based on the information presented and we never felt it was a result of our faulty workmanship. Not once did the customer even suggest a replacement stock.

If a customer breaks a stock in the manner during assembly, using wood glue is a very good way to repair the problem

How could it be from assembly....? I never got around to assembling it at that time because it was cracked sir. The ramrod pipe is just there for people to see where this was at. This was the way it came,,

 

[Snydly]

That’s some pretty bad workmanship! Lol who installed those ramrod tubes both cockeyed and the pin whole is butchered. Like Clint Eastwood said a man has to know his limitations. Should have asked someone to finish it for you! How did that muzzle get so severely cracked? Good grief!

The ramrod tubes are not installed... They were just lying there to show where the crack was in relation to the barrel! The pins had not even been attempted yet! Maybe you should get your arrogant head our of your butt! It is pretty obvious many people have a bloated opinion of themselves This was right out of the box people

 

[Mike in FL]

If you bring the lock out of its seating and then thread in the lock screw then tighten the screw down it will draw the lock into place as you carefully do this. Repeat this a very few times and your screw will then fit very well.

Yes! Thank you. I'm beginning to learn. Next is Jim's SMR.

 

[azmntman]

No opinion on who how why where and what of the cracked stock saga. I will say this very thing is why I ordered an IN THE WHITE. If anyone here would crack a stock, drill a crooked hole or drop a thin walled barrel He is now typing. I spent ALOT of money to have the rifle built by (I was told Jim himself). I have no regrets that I dropped the stock, cracked the stock, bent the pin or drilled a hole crooked. My only regret is that it was soooo dang nice just as it arrved that I STILL AM AFRAID TO FINISH IT! But I will. I bought a cheapo Traditions KY kit to butcher and get my confidence up. I used to do OK on wood work in HS days but then again I preformed a bit better in many of lifes aspects 40 years ago! My stock is plain maple and appears PLAIN. But I am betting when I do stain it it will pop and I may cry! Couldn't have been happeir with the purchase and the next will be the woodsrunner. Will see how much confinece gets rstored before I see if Jim has to build it again or if I feel I can do it! BTW with all the tools I didnt have to buy and all the time I didnt have to spend cleaning a place to work in the garage I more than paid for the IN THE WHITE Oh, and after a several posts with the cherry stock that one will be cherry!!

 

[Joemolf]

The ramrod tubes are not installed... They were just lying there to show where the crack was in relation to the barrel! The pins had not even been attempted yet! Maybe you should get your arrogant head our of your butt! It is pretty obvious many people have a bloated opinion of themselves This was right out of the box people

I’m looking at the pictures you provided! I can plainly see where the drift pin slipped off the 1/16 inch dowel and dented the wood! Am I seeing things? I don’t think I have a bloated opinion of myself! I too have slipped off a pin and added an undesirable flaw to my rifle because I was rushing. Is that stock maple? I can’t tell. Seems to me it’s maple maple does not crack as easily as walnut or cherry. You mentioned it went from minor to large in a few minutes can you explain what caused it to increase the crack that is. I’m not saying this is what happened but it looks like some one stepped on the end of it. You have to stress relase point. They are the barrel tab inlet and then the ramrod tube inlet. Seems to me if the stock had some kind of contorted grain structure the crack would have stopped at the barrel tab. I may be mistaken but the way to stop a crack is by drilling a hole at the end of it. Your crack just keeps going into the next hole. You may feel the need to defend TVM and initially it was not my intent to bash them I was hoping for curtiousy from them they admitted they have issues with stocks cracking and the common use of a filler on the buttplate to save time. When on your home page you boast about heirloom quality you don’t want to find out they cut corners! Prove me wrong the daughter told me they use filler on every gun. Why would I make that up. Pull your buttplate and tell me what you see putty or wood. If they were not so full stuff I would have walked away and lived with it. It took me a while to admit it was them but others already have there number and were not surprised when I admitted who I purchased them from. Like me you are going to have to fix it and live with it.

 

[Joemolf]

How could it be from assembly....? I never got around to assembling it at that time because it was cracked sir. The ramrod pipe is just there for people to see where this was at. This was the way it came,,

Now you’re saying it came that way? Did the create show any marring? File a complaint with USPS maybe they dropped it from a roof. That dent next to the ramrod tube pin bothers from the punch slipping off what is that about?

 

[Joemolf]

Okay for give but just a little I’m looking closely at what I thought was a slip with the punch but you said you didn’t assemble it. I’m now not sure if that mark is a marr or a pencil mark? Then aft of that you have more cracked stock and a mar in the stock. They are well packaged it had to be smashed around by USPS. You did say it went from nothing to worse in minutes I thought?

 

[waksupi]

I finished putting together a Woodsrunner this past week. Perfect timing, as the fire restrictions were lifted last Friday. At 50 yards, it didn't take much fiddling around to get a 1.5" group with 70 gr. 3f Schutzen, .526 RB, and pocket drill patch lubed with Moose Milk. No swabbing needed to work up the load and get it sighted in. I had to take the front sight down quite a bit to get it to shoot two inches high at 50 yards.

I did cone the barrel, and I enlarged the lock inlet around .020-.025" for easier removal. It was awful tight as it came, and in wet weather I figured that could cause some problems. I like a lock to fall out of the inlet when the bolts are removed, the rifle turned over and given a bump with my fist.

I did need to do a bit of work on the trigger plate and mortise, as I felt a slight bit of drag as it came. I'll see if I need to loosen it more after shooting on a few rainy days. We shoot year around, rain, snow or sun.

If there was one thing I would change, would be a slightly larger diameter stock pins.

All in all, these guns are certainly as represented, with excellent customer service.

 

[Cayman like]

You cracked the Kimbler and were looking for a hand out! You also screwed up the inlet pipe installation and messed up the pin hole! You have some gall.did you screw anything else up? Your TVM may look good but like I said earlier if you don’t mind a glued on butt plate and most likely no slots in the barrel tabs you’re destined to having it crack at some point maybe they used dryer wood that won’t shrink so much. All wood expands and contracts but I witnessed was very bad. Shame on them!

It was a war potty

 

[sturmkatze]

So .. you seem to be calling me a liar. Well I am not. If you look at some of my other posts you will see the picture of the crack in the stock and the exact quote that I got concerning the glueing of the wood. You would be better served if you were to get your facts straight before you make a couple idiot of yourself.... If that is possible!

My facts are what you say and what Jim Kibler says. In one hand, you condemn him and the next praise. If I were he, you’d be on the “do not sell to” list. Like that other guy who muffed the whole thing up.

Anyway, I stand by what I said.

 

[Snooterpup]

No, please! This is supposed to be a happy occasion! Let's not bicker and argue about who cracked what.​

My facts are what you say and what Jim Kibler says. In one hand, you condemn him and the next praise. If I were he, you’d be on the “do not sell to” list. Like that other guy who mugged the whole thing up.

Anyway, I stand by what I said.

 

[TDM]

I love Monty Python quotes. None better.

 

[user 34300]

I have the e-mail to back up my claim sir.


You can try to clamp the stock with the barrel in place and use a piece of paper to apply wood glue into the crack. Then let it dry and it should be fine after that! This is from the e-mail.
View attachment 250877

Why is the thimble pin hole damaged?