As I understand it from what I've read,and I should add that I have absolutely ZERO experience in handling a Kodiak,is that it is common practice to zero one rear sight/one barrel for 50 yards and the other sight/barrel for 100?Whether the barrels are actually regulated shouldn't matter with two adjustable rear sights should it?Set'em both for 50,75 or 100 if you like? :idunno:
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Kodiak Express Double Rifle
- Thread starter Marc Adamchek
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JayDee Flohr
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By your own admission your gun isn't a Pedersoli. The specs I have are for Pedersoli only. Yours could be different. Plus, with your load of 140 grains of powder and a heavy conical, who knows what is going on.
As I stated before, I use the rear sight for the right barrel and have it set at 50 yards. The front leaf sight is set at 100 yards for the left.
In theory, a person could use just one leaf sight and both projectiles would hit dead on at 75 yards. The two leafs give a person more options.
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Here's some more poppy cock for you.
Regulating double rifles is a mixture of ballistics, experience, and mysticism, and a long-standing one. There are several approaches, but the intent is to get the barrels to shoot very close to point of aim, to each other and over a usable variety of ranges. The whole point of the double rifle is to provide a quick second shot, at the expense of perfect accuracy.
There are a variety of approaches for doing this, but a combination can be used as well. Krieghoff's primary approach is based on a muzzle clamp that is adjusted at the until a high degree of consistency is achieved for a standard recommended load.
Rigby (the California Rigby) uses a muzzle clamp, and then soldiers the barrels in place once the desired result is achieved.
Pedersoli bore sights the barrels using a laser and then soldiers the barrels. Finer adjustments are made at the range by filing the muzzle (s). Since this is done in Italy the standard is metrical, but 75 yards would be a rough approximation. The double leaf sights are higher and lower to adapt for the longer and shorter range. How well regulated are they? Richard Beauchamp says "pretty well." The laser bore sighting should help a lot. They can't be getting the attention of a custom double rifle, but the Pedersoli Kodiaks are fired by a live person at their range. With a muzzle loader the end-user variables are, uh, considerable (we aren't accurately matching batches of powder, loading compression, ambient temperature, or perhaps, projectiles).
Dietrich Appel, who was my gunsmith until he retired, did a lot of custom regulating of double rifles, combination guns, and drillings (all cartridge as far as I know). It was the one thing he did not delegate at all.
Regulating double rifles is a mixture of ballistics, experience, and mysticism, and a long-standing one. There are several approaches, but the intent is to get the barrels to shoot very close to point of aim, to each other and over a usable variety of ranges. The whole point of the double rifle is to provide a quick second shot, at the expense of perfect accuracy.
There are a variety of approaches for doing this, but a combination can be used as well. Krieghoff's primary approach is based on a muzzle clamp that is adjusted at the until a high degree of consistency is achieved for a standard recommended load.
Rigby (the California Rigby) uses a muzzle clamp, and then soldiers the barrels in place once the desired result is achieved.
Pedersoli bore sights the barrels using a laser and then soldiers the barrels. Finer adjustments are made at the range by filing the muzzle (s). Since this is done in Italy the standard is metrical, but 75 yards would be a rough approximation. The double leaf sights are higher and lower to adapt for the longer and shorter range. How well regulated are they? Richard Beauchamp says "pretty well." The laser bore sighting should help a lot. They can't be getting the attention of a custom double rifle, but the Pedersoli Kodiaks are fired by a live person at their range. With a muzzle loader the end-user variables are, uh, considerable (we aren't accurately matching batches of powder, loading compression, ambient temperature, or perhaps, projectiles).
Dietrich Appel, who was my gunsmith until he retired, did a lot of custom regulating of double rifles, combination guns, and drillings (all cartridge as far as I know). It was the one thing he did not delegate at all.
MercerLake
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:v Tac
I don't recall seeing a double rifle with a large step in the barrel diameter just ahead of the breech. Generally they taper rather smoothly from breech to muzzle. IMHO the barrel has plenty of steel in it ahead of the step. The increased diameter adds pounds fast. Having fired a 600 Nitro double a few times I appreciate weight where it's necessary. The Kodiak is well made, safe, reasonably priced double rifle. :v
I don't recall seeing a double rifle with a large step in the barrel diameter just ahead of the breech. Generally they taper rather smoothly from breech to muzzle. IMHO the barrel has plenty of steel in it ahead of the step. The increased diameter adds pounds fast. Having fired a 600 Nitro double a few times I appreciate weight where it's necessary. The Kodiak is well made, safe, reasonably priced double rifle. :v
doublesnider
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"Finer adjustments are made at the range by filing the muzzle (s)"
Hi,
My .58 Kodiak do not look like muzzles were filed.
Would you please expalin this process a little more?
They do this only to breech loadiers?
BTW: even it i not "regulated" my rifle print both barrels side by side.
Martin
Hi,
My .58 Kodiak do not look like muzzles were filed.
Would you please expalin this process a little more?
They do this only to breech loadiers?
BTW: even it i not "regulated" my rifle print both barrels side by side.
Martin
If the barrels were truly regulated, they should have the powder charge weight and bullet weight stamped on the barrel somewhere or come with the regulating target stating the load used and the distance. In a muzzleloader, not only can the weight of the powder charge vary, but the granulation and brand of powder also. Now throw in different ball diameters and patch thicknesses. There is no way that those barrels could be truly regulated other than aligning them as parallel as possible during manufacturing. Regulating barrels is an art. I'm sure they COULD do it, but then they would have to charge $5,000. [and that would be a bargain!] cheers Paul
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I've never done this, I've never seen it done, and I certainly wouldn't try it myself. The practice involves shifting the POI by removing some metal from the opposite side of the muzzle. It must be pretty subtle. I didn't see any sign of the process on the Kodiak I handled either. I would assume that the test shots are fired before the barrels are blued. I also don't know what percentage of barrel sets require filing. It might be pretty low, and there is therefore nothing to see on most guns.
The whole process must be pretty routine given the price of the guns. I would conclude that the laser bore sighting is the key advance making this possible.
The whole process must be pretty routine given the price of the guns. I would conclude that the laser bore sighting is the key advance making this possible.
excess650
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I'm considering one of the 2 larger calibers myself. I've handled several, all Pedersoli, including .54, .58. and .72. My impression was that all were built on the same frame, and that the larger the bore, the lighter the weight of the rifle. The .72 seemed to be the lightest, but with sufficient weight to absorb the recoil. The .54 was heavy!
As for fit and finish, I thought they were reasonable, but most have pretty plain wood. Price wise, I wouldn't expect a top shelf double rifle to be priced inexpensively, but the Pedersoli isn't outrageous. Compare the price of their finished double with the price of a parts built longrifle and you'll find your labor isn't worth much.
At the moment I'm building a .62 flinter that should finish at 7#. Prior to building an even larger bore, I'm experimenting with groove diameter RBs and bullets with BP in my rifled Rem 870.
As for fit and finish, I thought they were reasonable, but most have pretty plain wood. Price wise, I wouldn't expect a top shelf double rifle to be priced inexpensively, but the Pedersoli isn't outrageous. Compare the price of their finished double with the price of a parts built longrifle and you'll find your labor isn't worth much.
At the moment I'm building a .62 flinter that should finish at 7#. Prior to building an even larger bore, I'm experimenting with groove diameter RBs and bullets with BP in my rifled Rem 870.
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flintlock62 said:
Sir - perhaps we misunderstood each other. The OP wrote the words 'English double' - here in England an 'English double' is the description for a double-barrelled shotgun. A 'double rifle' is called a double rifle.
tac
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paulab said:
Hi Paul, I don't disagree with you. Regulation is an art. They can't be truly regulated, and I don't believe that muzzle loaders can be truly regulated for essentially the reasons you cite. I would add that even custom regulation of double rifles is based on compromise and getting as close as possible.
It is time for me to eat crow.
After all the hoopla, I emailed Richard Beauchamp and found that the newer Kodiac Express rifles are actually now regulated to 50 yards and 100 yards.
Now, how well they are regulated is a another story. Regulating, as I know it, requires joining the barrels, testing pulling them apart removing metal and repeated until both barrels are TUNED to each other. That is the reason drillings are so darn expensive.
I offer my humble appologies to GreenMT, Fossil Hunter and anyone else I offended!
After all the hoopla, I emailed Richard Beauchamp and found that the newer Kodiac Express rifles are actually now regulated to 50 yards and 100 yards.
Now, how well they are regulated is a another story. Regulating, as I know it, requires joining the barrels, testing pulling them apart removing metal and repeated until both barrels are TUNED to each other. That is the reason drillings are so darn expensive.
I offer my humble appologies to GreenMT, Fossil Hunter and anyone else I offended!
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Hey 62!
No apologies necessary. As a rule of thumb, it is wise to be skeptical of most anything concerning double-rifle regulation!
No apologies necessary. As a rule of thumb, it is wise to be skeptical of most anything concerning double-rifle regulation!
Nope. One rear sight.
Regulation of a double rifle is as some have stated here: science, art, and magic. It is also not something you can expect on a $900 double rifle muzzle loader, especially, and yes as someone stated IF it was regulated it would be regulated to a certain powder, boolit (ball) size and weight and type. Regulation is very dependent on the load. If someone says oh yes it is regulated to 50 and 100 yards my first reaction is "A SCOOBY DOOO, What?!" I have a well regulated 50-90 Double Rifle and it can shoot almost into the same hole at 75 yards with a very specific boolit and powder and powder amount and wad and pressure when loading. It is NOT regulated to two different distances and I never heard of a double rifle that is.
Regulation of a double rifle is as some have stated here: science, art, and magic. It is also not something you can expect on a $900 double rifle muzzle loader, especially, and yes as someone stated IF it was regulated it would be regulated to a certain powder, boolit (ball) size and weight and type. Regulation is very dependent on the load. If someone says oh yes it is regulated to 50 and 100 yards my first reaction is "A SCOOBY DOOO, What?!" I have a well regulated 50-90 Double Rifle and it can shoot almost into the same hole at 75 yards with a very specific boolit and powder and powder amount and wad and pressure when loading. It is NOT regulated to two different distances and I never heard of a double rifle that is.
doublesnider
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Kodiaks are made in two sices corresponding to their shotguns:
One corresponding to the 12 Ga in .50, .54 and .58, thats why the last is the lightest. :wink:
The other, .72 is made on 10 Ga shotgun.
I do not know how they do it but they found a way to solder the barrels so they print pretty close.
Martin
One corresponding to the 12 Ga in .50, .54 and .58, thats why the last is the lightest. :wink:
The other, .72 is made on 10 Ga shotgun.
I do not know how they do it but they found a way to solder the barrels so they print pretty close.
Martin
JayDee Flohr
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Just about every Double Rifle has a rear "EXPRESS SIGHT". EXPRESS SIGHTS have two or more blades but that is NOT to regulate the barrels to different aim points; that is for changing RANGES, ie distance. It is not a regulation aid at all. As you all know, bullets drop over distance, that is the reason for different heights in the blades of an EXPRESS SIGHT.
