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Lack of cylinder safety pins

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to all you folks who do not believe in transfer bars on modern revolvers or safety notches and pins on cap and ball revolvers and think its ok to have the hammer of your percussion rifle or pistol resting on the cap of a loaded chamber while not having the weapon pointed down range please wear a shirt that has bold letters proclaiming that you are an unsafe shooter. For what its worth transfer bars were not the lawyers idea. That was Bill Ruger coming up with a solution to all the folks shooting themselves in the leg while fast drawing. having had an 1858 go off in my holster when my thumb slipped off the hammer while fast drawing I absolutely appreciate that invention.
I never could figure out the allure of the fast draw as it simply never happened historically and is a pure invention of Hollywood, not to mention being unsafe gun handling to boot and hard as hell on revolvers !
 
Iver Johnson came up with the transfer bar in their "Hammer the Hammer" revolvers in the early 1900s and S&W came up with a version in 1915, later upgraded in 1945. I have no problems with a reliable "hammer block" type safety and would like to see them incorporated in all revolvers. A S&W Lemon Squeezer grip safety added to all non-traditional revolvers would be fine with me too.
 
Shooting fast and accurate is so much fun and so practical. I never could figure out why bullseye shooters need 30 min to fire 10 shots... The safety notches on my 1858 combined with a slim jim holster that mostly covers the hammer and trigger makes me feel perfectly safe to carry an 1858 with six loaded chambers busting through brush and rough country. You would have to be a special kind of ignorant to carry with the hammer resting on a live cap. The reason the old peacmakers were 5 shooters was because they don't have a safety notch or a transfer bar.
 
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Shooting fast and accurate is so much fun and so practical. I never could figure out why bullseye shooters need 30 min to fire 10 shots... The safety notches on my 1858 combined with a slim jim holster that mostly covers the hammer and trigger makes me feel perfectly safe to carry an 1858 with six loaded chambers busting through brush and rough country. You would have to be a special kind of ignorant to carry with the hammer resting on a live cap. The reason the old peacmakers were 5 shooters was because they don't have a safety notch or a transfer bar.
Good bullseye shooters make much smaller groups at 25 and even 50 yards than does any quick draw competition which is more about speed than fine accuracy.
Historically men did not face one another down and see who could out draw the other, they were more into bushwacking and dry gulching where all the advantage was theirs.
Many used double barrel shot guns with buckshot to clean up bad towns. Wyatt Earp was said to like Greener doubles for his marshal work.
 
Good bullseye shooters make much smaller groups at 25 and even 50 yards than does any quick draw competition which is more about speed than fine accuracy.
Historically men did not face one another down and see who could out draw the other, they were more into bushwacking and dry gulching where all the advantage was theirs.
Many used double barrel shot guns with buckshot to clean up bad towns. Wyatt Earp was said to like Greener doubles for his marshal work.

I would agree as far as history goes . . . but, because of Hollywood and the TV "oaters" in the '50s and '60s that spawned the Fast Draw craze/ competition and the eventual CAS competition, is the reason we have enjoyed a continuous supply of "six guns"/ rifles and shotguns. The Italians, wanting to capitalize on our "Civil War" Centennial, have been riding that wave ever since!! I'm sure they're as surprised as we are!!

Mike
 
When I shot IPSC in the 80s and 90s there were loads of shooters who had near bullseye accuracy with speed. What I have seen of modern cowboy action and IPSC is a trend towards almost all full size silhouette targets at close range. In my time it was routine to have 35yrd head shots behind hostages. At that time for a doubble tap in the A zone head shot my split times between shots was between 5/10ths and 9/10ths of a second at 35 to 50 yrds. NRA action matches at the national level were insane and most of those guys were also top IPSC shooters. The Bianci cup used to boil down to a perfect or darn near perfect score between the top two or three guys decided by the X count over a course of 192 shots with full power loads mandatory. Not as fast as IPSC or Cowboy action but pretty darn quick with a moving target stage. Bullseye in comparison is pathetic.. I have seen guys take 5 min just to get off one shot and still miss the 10 ring. At our state muzzeloader champoinships you don't even need to get all 10 shots off in a single 30 min stage. you can leave your target up and finish in the next stage if you need to. I really wish there were more speed oriented classes. The only one I saw in the sectionals was a timed fire stage where you got 10 min to shoot 10 shots @ 25yrds. I did it in about 7 min and scored 93. the most fun stage of the whole event for me and my best score.
 
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to all you folks who do not believe in transfer bars on modern revolvers or safety notches and pins on cap and ball revolvers and think its ok to have the hammer of your percussion rifle or pistol resting on the cap of a loaded chamber while not having the weapon pointed down range please wear a shirt that has bold letters proclaiming that you are an unsafe shooter.
Life is full of balancing risk-benefit. What you would do at a range is different than what you might do in Indian country. I'm happy to avail myself of modern safeties but I wouldn't give up a sixth shot carried on half **** in a revolver if I reasonably expected a fight just because of the risk I might drop the gun and shear off the half **** notch.
 
Life is full of balancing risk-benefit. What you would do at a range is different than what you might do in Indian country. I'm happy to avail myself of modern safeties but I wouldn't give up a sixth shot carried on half **** in a revolver if I reasonably expected a fight just because of the risk I might drop the gun and shear off the half **** notch.
It is NOT the half **** being engaged as a safety on Colt model P type sixguns. I have never seen anyone using the HALF **** in that manner. Doing that would be more dangerous than using the safety The Colt model P, old model 3 screw Ruger's, and faithful copies have an unsafe safety notch in the hammer for the sear to drop in. The very first click you hear in these guns when cocking the hammer is the sear riding over that notch. The engagement of the sear in this notch prevents the firing pin from touching the cartridge primer, however, this safety is extremely unsafe in actual use and general carry. The sears on these type guns is thin and brittle and any direct hard contact will cause the thin sear tip to break off allowing the hammer to strike the primer and fire the gun. My personal experience was from the gun falling from chest high to a hard floor, concrete covered with thin carpet, and the butt of the gun striking the floor hard enough that the sear 'bounced' out of the notch and the hammer fell hard enough to fire the gun. Nothing broke, not a mark on the gun, 3 people in the room very near the incident, no one injured. .22 WMR Colt Frontier Scout. I never found the bullet nor a bullet hole anywhere in the room.
 
It is NOT the half **** being engaged as a safety on Colt model P type sixguns. I have never seen anyone using the HALF **** in that manner. Doing that would be more dangerous than using the safety The Colt model P, old model 3 screw Ruger's, and faithful copies have an unsafe safety notch in the hammer for the sear to drop in. The very first click you hear in these guns when cocking the hammer is the sear riding over that notch. The engagement of the sear in this notch prevents the firing pin from touching the cartridge primer, however, this safety is extremely unsafe in actual use and general carry. The sears on these type guns is thin and brittle and any direct hard contact will cause the thin sear tip to break off allowing the hammer to strike the primer and fire the gun. My personal experience was from the gun falling from chest high to a hard floor, concrete covered with thin carpet, and the butt of the gun striking the floor hard enough that the sear 'bounced' out of the notch and the hammer fell hard enough to fire the gun. Nothing broke, not a mark on the gun, 3 people in the room very near the incident, no one injured. .22 WMR Colt Frontier Scout. I never found the bullet nor a bullet hole anywhere in the room.
Looking at my 2nd Gen Colt manual maybe I'm getting my terminology wrong. The manual describes the "safety notch" as the postion I called half-****. The manual calls half **** the loading position. According to the manual the safety notch will keep the hammer from falling unless forces 35lbs are placed on the trigger. That's far more than will **** and fire most double action guns. I'm comfortable carrying a pistol in this position in scenarios where I expect a risk of danger and would rather have an extra shot before reloading. I've never carried an original but on a 2nd gen colt on a secure holster this an acceptable risk to me.
 
Half **** is loading position, safe **** is the first click heard when drawing the hammer back and has no other function or reason than safety although it really isn't safe. The hammer has 3 positions, safe, load/unload, and fire. A 35 lb force is not hard to obtain from a falling object, or a drop to hard ground. A number of accidental discharges have been from a hard bump to the hammer from an accidental rifle butt strike. If going in possible harms way, I too would load 6, but only if, because by loading 6 you are creating harms way to yourself. To carry in loading position would be ridiculous. You do as you think best. If you carry very often, 50/50 chance it will happen. Sooner or later.
 
If i off base tell me, but half **** is not the pins we were talking about. I personally would never carry on half ****. But hey, it’s your leg. Im all for personal freedom in this country.
Edit… its tough to discuss multi generational pistols in a thread because they all different.
Example….
My 48 and 51 Colts have pin’s between cylinders.
My 58 Remington has grooves between cylinders (better).
My 74 Virginia Dragoon has a first click that holds hammer off fire pin. 2nd click is half ****.
My 76 Ruger has a transfer bar, no way anything will fire.
5 pistols, 5 totally different safety methods.
 
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If i off base tell me, but half **** is not the pins we were talking about. I personally would never carry on half ****. But hey, it’s your leg. Im all for personal freedom in this country.
Edit… its tough to discuss multi generational pistols in a thread because they all different.
Example….
My 48 and 51 Colts have pin’s between cylinders.
My 58 Remington has grooves between cylinders (better).
My 74 Virginia Dragoon has a first click that holds hammer off fire pin. 2nd click is half ****.
My 76 Ruger has a transfer bar, no way anything will fire.
5 pistols, 5 totally different safety methods.
That first click is the thin delicate tip of the sear going into the upper most hammer notch. Safe only until an unexpected hard blow to said hammer breaks the brittle sear tip off causing the hammer to fall hard and fire the gun. Maybe never. Maybe today.
 
That first click is the thin delicate tip of the sear going into the upper most hammer notch. Safe only until an unexpected hard blow to said hammer breaks the brittle sear tip off causing the hammer to fall hard and fire the gun. Maybe never. Maybe today.
If you mean the 74 Virginia, i agree, its the closest to the real old west action of cartridge guns.
 
In 1970 or 71 I purchased a 1851 Navy and it did not have any "safety pins" in the cylinder. I don't remember who made it. I gave it to my brother as a Christmas present that year. He still has it as far as I know.
 
If you mean the 74 Virginia, i agree, its the closest to the real old west action of cartridge guns.
The Virginia was good but the USFA Colt SAA clone was at the top. Not only was every piece perfectly interchangeable with the original Colt but was even fitted and finished better than the Colt. As with most absolute top quality things, they were very expensive. Too expensive to survive for a long time. Now there is a new maker that may even surpass USFA, but is even more expensive.
 
Here are Colt's instructions from the era - note what it says "to carry the arm safely........" you tough guys go right ahead, carry these, carry 1873s, etc. with the hammer down on a live round. Throw them in your car, in and out of the holster, take them anywhere and everywhere, don't have to worry about a thing. Guns ended up with transfer bar safetys for a reason.
transfer bar, transfer bar, we don't need no stinking transfer bar.
Since the Texas Rangers quieted down the Comanches the number of pesky ***** troubles has dropped to zero.
Load five and let the hammer on a uncapped firing cone. These guns may be old time, but they have put many a man in the ground so safety over "period correctness".
Bunk
 
Recently picked up a Pietta 1861 Navy that is just about flawless with the exception of having no safety pins on the cylinder. Can always leave one cylinder unloaded so it's not a huge issue but I'm surprised that the hammer is notched for the pins but there are none. Wonder if this was a factory second, defect or oversight, anyone seen this on their guns?
You can put your own pins in the cylinder ..I bought a gun where the pins were broken off by a fanning *****.

the cylinders are soft enough to drill your own holes and put pins in.
 
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