Lead vs leather

[Horace]

I have heard the opinion that it is better to use lead instead of leather to hold the flint. What are the pros and cons?

 

[rich pierce]

Lead is not recommended for rifle locks and can void the warrantee. Sparks better, more shock to the lock.

 

[ky_man]

I get better results using lead. I just pound a ball flat and trim it using scissors. I then swage the lead onto the flint. I do 5-10 at a time and keep them in my flint wallet. You have to re-tighten every 5 shots or so, or replace the lead when it wears through. Good luck.

 

Locks got warentees? I'll be darned, whoda thunk it????

 

It works, but so does leather. As stated it will void some warrenties. I think it's OK on Muskets, and large fowler locks, but can cause problems with smaller locks ( more mass on the cock) Have used it in the past, but no longer. Whaterver floats yer boat. Bill

 

[tg]

some will state as a matter of fact that one is better than the other, same with bevel up or down, your own lock will probably be your best source of info, I have tried both and prefer leather as do most shooters I know, most of these guys have shot for 20-40 years.Do not always believe something just because someone has written it down, do as you have here and ask for opinions and experiment.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Any cock that is made so poorly, or cast from such poor metal that you would need to worry about adding a few grains of weight ( The difference between a lead and leather wrap) to the cock because it might break the cock is not something you want on a gun in the first place. The examples I have heard about all show casting problems, or metal fatique, that indicate the metal used was inferior, or that the cock was not heat treated properly.

I recommend trying both lead and leather, with the same flint. With an empty gun in a darkened room, hold the gun out from you so you can see the flashpan from the side. Then cock and trip the hammer and watch the sparks. Note the color and how long the sparks live. Note how many sparks are produced. Do that with both leather and lead. Do the test 5-10 times with each, so you get a good idea of what is happening.

Before you remove the flint after its wrapped in leather, Check the edge of the flint, in good light, to see if there are any bits of steel imbedded in the edge. Then, when you finish using the lead wrap, check the edge the same way.

It is my experience that, provided the flint is angled properly to scrape the face of the frizzen, and not gouge it, the lead wrap will self-knapp the flint edge, and you won't be knapping the edge with a separate tool every 5-10 shots. With Leather wrapped around the flint, you will find metal clogging the edge, and you will be knapping on a regular basis. YOu should also observe that the lead wrap produces more sparks, whiter sparks, and that they bounce more than once in the pan before going out. With the leather wrap, you get fewer sparks, orange to orange-white in color, and they burn out on the first bounce.

Test this yourself. Its your gun, and lock. More important, you can do this test without special equipment, and your judgement is as good as my own.

Oh, to be fair to both kinds of wraps, I recommend firing the lock 5 times, and then checking the cockscrew with your screwdriver or turnscrew, to re tighten it, as it often takes a few strikes for the flint to seat itself in either of the wraps. Then do the spark test in the darkened room.

 

[roundball]

Leather is the real deal...has been for hundreds of years

 

[arquebus]

After reading a similar post a few weeks ago I have switched to lead. I have noticed an increase in spark quality & the flint does seem to stay sharper longer. I think it was in one of Paul's previous postings on the subject where he stated that a properly shaped flint will tend to knap itself when using lead as (I think) it has a more consistent contact with the frizzen than one does when wrapped in leather. I also seem to think that my frizzen face, which was getting 'rippled' before I switched, seems to be smoothing out now I'm using lead(?). These are just my observations.

 

[boar]

My blue ridge ( pedersoli,Italy )came with a lead flint holder. I have used both, but beleive Paul is right. Going to use lead more, weed out the junk. Dilly

 

[TANSTAAFL]

I have heard the opinion that it is better to use lead instead of leather to hold the flint. What are the pros and cons?

Ask and you shall receive. Chicken and the egg debate within the rock lock community, eloquent arguments for both coming right up.

 

So has lead. Use what works best in yer particular lock. I have rifles and guns in flint that prefer one or the other. Each lock is different. Experiment and see what yours prefers,

 

[cowpoke1955]

My Blue Ridge also came with a lead flint holder. Worked just fine. I have since switched to leather. I've obtained a good heave piece of buck skin, which means alot of flint holders. The Pedersoli Blue Ridge locks works great with eithed.

 

[Tumblernotch]

I agree. I know that lead has been used in muskets for years, mostly because it was readily available to the soldiers although I remember in the past seeing leather listed on a list of stores ready for issue. I've used lead on my Charleville, but it tends to loosen too easily and I've not seen any improvement in sparking. Actually, if anything, it wears the flint quicker. Leather, once tightened properly, rarely gets loose, at least on my guns. Lead will transfer the shock of striking the battery to the cock more instead of absorbing it and as mentioned in another post, could cause the cock to bend a little or even break in a cheap lock.

If one was to use lead (which I would only recommend in a musket lock), you should drill or punch a hole in the middle and when you fold it there will be a notch in it. That notch will line up with the jaw screw allowing the flint to go back further in the jaws and will help hold it in line with the battery. They were issued that way to soldiers when available.

An excellent source for leather for holding flints in rifles is the tongue out of an old work boot. A little heavier than buckskin but lighter than most of the leather one would pick up anywhere. As has been said , you have to experiment and see what works best for you. This is just what I have learned over the years.

 

[Bartek]

Lead was popular in XVIII here, in eastern Europe by military weapon, specilly in Silesia. I think it was just easier to carry flints in lead. Soldiers could use them very fast.
I use lead in my Kentucky, cal..45 and it's ok when lead sheet is 2-3 mm thick.

 

[renovato]

Being a newbie to flintlocks, I started with lead, mostly because of the recommendations I found here, partially because I didn't have any suitable scrap leather handy. Then I found that my owners manual recommends lead anyway.

I'm getting a nice shower of white sparks and have had no problems. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[Gary]

I like lead, but after rifle & lock-maker Jim Chambers told me that lead adds mass that can cause an investment casted hammer to bend, I switched to leather. Check out any of Jim's personal guns. You'll see they're all leather.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Have used both and now use lead exclusively with no problem. The biggest problem with using lead is leaving too much on the wrap. Use the old hammer a pistol ball with a hammer method till it's just thick enough to grip the flint...don't need lots! :winking:

 

[Greenmtnboy]

once again Paul you are right on,
I use lead and find a much faster ignition.
:hatsoff:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Look, all I ask is for people to try the experiment as I out lined it above, and again a year ago. Those who steadfastly stick to using leather are welcome to their position. But, I notice they are silent about trying the experiment. The silence speaks volumes for those who are paying attention. I am not going to change the ways of shooters who are set in their ways. If they think adding about 30 grains of weight to a wrap is going to make the cock on their lock BEND, then don't do it. My cocks are cast from stronger stuff than that, and have been properly heat treated.

What I hope to do is give new shooters a chance to get the best performance out of their expensive flints, get sure ignition, so they can concentrate on their shooting skills, and not on whether the gun is going to actually fire THIS TIME, a frustration no one needs, and eliminate knapping as ONE OF THOSE THINGS YOU HAVE TO DO to keep a flintlock firing.

I have used every kind of leather from soft " Chrome tanned" leather, to brain tanned leather, to raw hide, to wrap flints. I have soaked leathers in water and then pressed them in a vise to make them compressed and hard as a brick. All of them have shown " give", or rebound, which leaves chatter marks on my frizzen, and loads the edge with steel chips. Those chips cause a misfire, sooner or later.

If the cock is angled properly, so the flint edge scrapes the frizzen at 60 degrees, the flint itself will break along its 120 dgree refractory line( 120 plus 60 = 180 degrees), so that it knapps itself with each strike while slicing off bits of steel to throw into the pan. Because the the hammerfall is not impeded by poor angled contact, causing rebound, all the energy of the mainspring is used to cut the steel, creating a hotter spark that lasts longer, and more sparks to make sure that some of them ignite the powder in the pan. Because of proper angles, and no wasted motion, you can and should reduce the tension on the mainspring and the frizzen spring to reduce the disturbance to your sight picture when the hammer comes to rest. Do these things with your lock, and your shooting improves, either off the bench, or off your hind legs. Oh, you can still miss a target, if you don't have good basic skills, but it won't be the gun or the lock's fault if you do.

I often wonder if the old guys who refuse to try my test are just concerned about competition from the new guys. It would not be the first time some shooter steered a new guy the wrong direction just so he could remain the king on his molehill. Personally, I like to shoot against people who are shooting their best. It makes me concentrate and bear down to compete with them to win. If I do win, the win is well earned. If I am just shooting better than the other guys, because they are shooting poorly for any reason, its just another win that means nothing.

When I first began shooting a flintlock, in the early 1980s, it was a rare thing for the gun to go off. Today, its a rare event for the gun not to fire. I never worry about a flint. The last time the gun did not go off, I looked down at the flint, and a huge chunk of the edge was missing, and an occlusion, or what was left of it, was visible where the flint shattered. It was very humid out, and my prime was already clumping together. I replaced the flint, reprimed, and the gun went off just fine the rest of the day. It was my fault that the gun did not fire. I didn't bother to check my flint before priming the gun for the shot, and I didn't clean the pan well. I won't do that again.