Leather vs. Lead setting flints

[Joe Yanta]

In my past I have either seen a picture or a flintlock where the flint was set in lead instead of leather. I ponder on that from time to time and think I would probably be a good thing to try. It would seem that the lead would form a better "molding" around the different facets of the flint making it more secure in the jaws.

Leather being somewhat spongy and compressable, in my thinking, would act to dampen the vibrations of flint striking frizzen and perhaps rob you of a spark or two. It would absorb some of the energy of the action.

Has anyone ever tried using lead in the jaws instead of leather? Am I thinking wrong on this and should I go lay down my dish? Your ideas or experiences would be appreciated.

Thanks

Joe

 

[dtruex]

I use lead to hold the flint on my Brown Bess and it works great for me. I know others have posted saying that it doesn't hold as well as leather, is hard on flints, etc. I believe it was more a military practice, so maybe it works better on the large musket locks. I've never tried it on any of my other rifles or pistols. It could be that smaller locks can't squeeze down hard enough to compress the lead firmly on the flint. On the large Bess lock I use a piece of sheet lead that's 3/32" thick. I screw the top jaw down tight on the flint/lead sandwich and then use my little knapping hammer to peen the overhanging edges of the lead down over the sides of the flint. This seems to really help lock it in place. I do have to occasionally tighten the screw, but no more than with the leather wrappings on my other guns.

Dave

 

[Swampman]

Lead slows your lock down, and will break it. Don't use lead.

 

[Flintandsteel]

I've ALWAYS used leather, However,

I just got a custom Ditchburn lock from Stan Hollenbaugh, he ALWAYS ships his with a lead sheet around the flint.
Stan says, NEVER use leather.
No matter where you go..... there you are. :nono: :redface:

 

[SCATTERSHOT]

I believe that lead was standard practice in military muskets, but I have heard that it's hard on rifle locks due to the less robust configuration of the cock. I don't take the chance, and use leather.

 

[roundball]

The only reference I ever saw about using lead was an article about soldiers pounding a ball flat to make a lead sheet to hold a flint...every other rerefernce I've ever seen always talked about leather to hold flints.

The way I torque a flint down in the jaws, and the way I position flints all the way back against the jaw screw, they can't/don't budge.

And if my ignition was any better, was any more consistent, I couldn't stand it so I guess I'll just keep using leather...like the old saying: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"

 

[Wes/Tex]

Have used lead exclusively for years. Just take a round ball and pound it flat on concrete. Have had no problems so far. The smaller locks on rifles and pistols work fine, possibly because I use a ball around .45 to make the leaden flint holder. I hammer it fairly thin so there's not much extra weight. Also noticed that the irregular surface of the lead from hammering it on concrete seems to hold better than smooth. Your mileage may very. :hatsoff:

 

[Old Ironsights]

Having cooled off a bit from Mark's uninformative declarative, I will relate a bit.

I have tried both and, using my lock and cut agate or cut Arkansas Chert Flints see no appreciable difference.

Using an appropriately flattened and shaped ball will in no way hurt a modern or repro lock - but it won't hold a smooth-cut agate as well as leather.

OTOH, lead won't swell or flex like leather, so you can, with lumpy flints to grip, get a more stable strike on the frizzen.

Use what works best on your gun with your flints.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I have yet to buy a cut flint, made of agate, or other substances, so I can't talk about lead being used to hold those flints. However, with any knapped flint, and even obsidian( which is too brittle to hold up very long) lead holds the stone just fine. The surface may be smooth but it is uneven, and the lead will conform to the shape of the stone.

OTOH, Leather, even if it is rawhide, has been soaked, squeezed and pounded, will retain some " give ", and it therefore acts as a shock absorber, permitting the flint to rebound after its first strike of the frizzen, before continuing its stroke. You have to use high speed film to actually see this happen, but it does. The rebounding flint pulls bits of steel from the frizzen which then clog the edge of the flint. After a few shots, the edge is so loaded that it cannot be relied on to spark again. Then you have to reset the edge or knapp it.

If you use lead, the additional weight of the lead will help carry the flint through its arc when it strikes the frizzen, without rebounding, scraping more, and hotter bits of steel from the face of the frizzen, and throwing them into the pan. The added weight is only about 35 grains at best, as you don't use an entire round ball to make a flint wrap. It should be about 1/32 to 1/16 " thick at its thickest, and it will eventually squeeze down to a thinner piece of lead than that after it has been used with many flints and squeezed many times in the cock. I use the Hawken Shop Flint tool to tighten my cock, and have found nothing that works better. After five hammer drops, I check the cock screw and usually can tighten it another 1/12 turn or so. That is what is involved in forming a tight seal between the lead and the surface of the flint.

Assuming the lock geometry is correct, you never have to knapp a flint again. You do have to move the flint forward after 25-30 shots, in order to keep the sparks going into the center of the pan, or just forward of the centerline. I leave the flint wrapped in the lead, and just find a twig to stick behind the parcel to move it the needed distance forward. Once I have cranked down the cockscrew, I break off the twig, or trim it with my knife, and I am set to go another 30 shots.

 

[robinghewitt]

 

[Bartek]

This is the picture of the collection of original balls and the flint from "Silesian Wars" (1740-1763); all found on the battlefield. You can see the flint in the lead. Many flints from that period are found in lead, so it had to bee popular practice to use it.
regards :hatsoff:

 

[Swampman]

Their locks were forged. Ours are pot metal. Don't use lead, it will damage your lock.

 

[spotlink]

I have always used leather in my Charleville and Brown Bess. No bad things have ever happened.

 

[robinghewitt]

Their locks were forged. Ours are pot metal. Don't use lead, it will damage your lock.

Have you had an unfortunate experience? Do share :thumbsup:

 

[Swampman]

I've never used lead, but I've seen locks broken and damaged by it. The extra weight added, at the worst possible place is enough to keep me away from it.

 

[scott k]

Ours are pot metal.

I don't think believe their made of pot metal. More likely cast steel I would say.
Lehigh...

 

[Cherokee]

Heres a definition from an online Dictionary.


pot metal
n.
1. A copper and lead alloy, formerly used in making plumbing fixtures.
2. A cast iron used especially in making pots.
3. An inexpensive alloy of poor quality, usually containing lead, used especially in making castings: cheap jewelery made from plated pot metal.

 

[musketman]

I have always used leather, but should the flint be touching the smooth side or the rough side of the leather strip??? :hmm:

 

[robinghewitt]

should the flint be touching the smooth side or the rough side of the leather strip??? :hmm:

Why does that question remind me of the time I went badger spotting with my mother?

I said, "We can use peanut butter sandwiches as bait". She replied, "Crunchy or smooth?" :rotf:

 

[spotlink]

I find the rough side gets a good grip on the ever elusive flint whereas the teeth on the hammer grab the smooth part of the leather.