Length of pull?

[David Paskowski]

How do you measure one's length of trigger pull. I think that's what it's called.

 

[OB OBrien]

Hi Dave I aint no expert but have heard the length of pull is when you measure from the crooked trigger finger to the inside of your elbow. Say you pick up a rifle and put your finger in the trigger and bend your arm. If it touches or comes real close to the inside of your elbow then that is considered a good fit. It's measured in inches and there are pads and or extensions to make it longer and or you cut the stock back to shorten it if you have short arms.
Hope this answers your question. Cya OB

 

[blacksmithman64]

What OB said! Welcome to the forum, both of y'all! :thumbsup:

 

[David Paskowski]

So, I measure from the crook of my trigger finger to the crease of my arm at the elbow?

 

[roundball]

Gentlemen, if I may be so bold...that old measurement scheme has been handed down over the generations but its really not all that reliable.

No question, some folks may do that and find that a particular shotgun or rifle with that measurement seems to fit them OK, but its really coincident and not a simple measurement by which a longarm purchase decision should be made.

Fotr example, my shirts have 38" sleeve lengths and when I make that old fachioned LOP measurement it says I should use a 16.5" LOP...which I know is not right as I've learned that a 14.25" to 14.75" LOP range is usually good for me with most rifles & shotguns.

The other huge factor that enters into gun fit is "drop"...'drop at the comb' and even more importantly 'drop at the heel'...the amount of drop at the heel will have a big influence on what LOP would be best for that particular longarm and good gun fit usually needs to take both those dimensions into account at the same time.

 

[howdydoit]

Im with Roundball on this one.

howdy

 

[blacksmithman64]

the LOP between elbow and curled finger will get you in the neighborhood. Drop is something I never considered :redface: However you don't have much of a choice with a factory made gun.I can't recall ever seeing a factory gun with 14.25" of pull. I had to decline an A. Verner and go with a Haines style in a kit build to get my pull at 13-3/4" I don't like to "climb all over a gun" just to shoot it

 

[roundball]

In the '70s and early '80s, the stocks on T/C Hawkens were usually made with a much better grade of walnut, and had a much more distinctive shape to the butt stock, and longer LOPs of 14.25 to 14.75".
Over the years any time I ran across a real pretty one from those years I bought it, refinished it, upgraded an existing stock and sold the newer shorter one.

 

[MSW]

i agree with Roundball

 

[Keppy]

Well this maybe off topic some but here goes. I do use the trigger finger to elbow to see if the rifle is close. But to actually know if it fits I do this. First I make sure that the clothes I have on are similar to the hunting situation or at least figure it in on the fit.If your at a sporting goods store try on a jacket. I have seen to many buy rifles in the summer time with a tee shirt on and say boy that fits prefect. And think to myself ya but how about when it's 2 degrees and you now have a jacket on. It won't fit as good.
Also an old timer gave me a tip years ago and I have used this and seems to work for me. He told me raise the rifle up to my shoulder and look for the sights. Do this a couple times. But for the real test to see if it really fits. Now close your eyes. Now raise the rifle up quick and now open your shooting eye. If the sights are right on you have a prefector a good match. I have used this technique to buy rifles and it has worked for me. The rifle sights may not always be prefect but if its close you know its going to shoulder very nice and sights will be easy to pickup to put on target.
The combs are usally to high for me on some rifles. Thats why this method works for me.

 

[billd]

Round ball is right, you can't go with the elbow to finger. I have long arms and always had trouble buying clothes, even tall sizes which should fit me well. Until I went to a tailor to get a suit coat altered and he told me my arms are longer from my elbow to my shoulder than average and normal from my elbow to my hand. That's why I when I bend my arm my sleeves creep up my wrists. He also said this is much more common than most people think but it's not considered in making standard clothes. I'm giving this example because if I used the elbow to finger method I would end up with a gun way too short.

I'm 6'2" with a 37" sleeve and like about 14 1/4 to 14 1/2. The shorter for winter with heavy clothes.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Here is a recent thread on LOP:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showpost.php?post/641901/


Since I am tall but anthropomorphically conventional I can get by with the length from pad of bent trigger finger to inner crook of elbow method.

My beloved .22LR has a much shorter LOP that my flintlock (like 1-3/4" shorter). But the chance of me opening my nostril with my thumbnail from the .22LR recoil is slight.

Easiest way is to find a rifle or gun you like and measure that.

 

[Walks with fire]

The elbow/finger method works really well for me but I can see how it would not work well for everyone. I like to have it so that when gripping the stock with my finger on the trigger the butt just barely touchs my bicep at the elbow when wearing a medium weight hunting jacket. It works for me from T shirts to heavy jacket.

If a stock is too long the trigger finger has to extend to much to get to the trigger. The trigger finger will be forced to press against the stock to reach the trigger. It's referred to as dragging wood and not good for consistant offhand accuracy.

 

[CZMark]

Easiest way is to find a rifle or gun you like and measure that.

Go to a gunshop and try a bunch of guns until one feels right--take some measurements (or look up LOP etc. if a factory-made gun)and Bob's your uncle.

 

[thewho66]

Not theat this is a good example you can shoot a shorter length of pull gun, but there will be trade offs. I purchased a flinter as my first muzzleloader, the length of pull was about 12.5 inchs. Now im 6'3" medium build and long armed and legged I could shoot it fine the problem I ran into was my check was to far up on the wrist and i would get a bruise after going though my clubs monthly shoot. I then got a T/C bruising gone mainly because my cheack was now on the cheak rest. Yes I learned a lesson about guns butr to date know one could shoot that one gun better than me and Im glad I got it if for only because it got me into black powder muzzleloding.

 

[kansas_volunteer]

Try to find a copy of the book The Shotgun Stock, it will give you about as thurough a discussion of LOP as anything you're ever apt to read.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Most stocks have too long a LOP, and too Short a Drop At Comb. That means the comb is high- usually intended for shooting a scope sight.

If you are stocking a gun intended to be shot ONLY with iron sights, you use one set of rules. If you are going to shoot a scope, different rules apply.

Assuming this is an iron sighted Traditional Muzzleload, without a globe front sight, or Tang Peep sight, or International Receiver sight mounted on the back of the barrel, most shooters can shoot a stock with a 13 1/2" LOP. Its measured from the trigger you pull to fire the gun( not a set trigger behind it, if you are using a double set trigger arrangement)to the center of the buttstock.

Drop at comb is measured from a line derived by extending a straight edge along the top flat of the barrel, to the rear of the stock. The bottom of that straight edge to the top of the comb, at its forward edge, is where the the DROP AT COMB is measured. Typically, it is 1 1/2" to 2 1/2" in length, depending on the shooter's face, and the distance from the center of his pupil, looking straight ahead, to the bottom of his cheekbone.

If the shooter has a normal neck size, then the Drop at Heel, at the top of the buttplate, is going to be 2 1/2 to 3 3/4" in length. But if you have a neck that is long- measure from your collar bone to the jaw- then you might be more comfortable with a slightly longer DROP at HEEL. I have one gunstock that is very comfortable for me to shoot off-hand with a 4 inch DROP AT HEEL.

And that gets me to my last comments. If you are building a gun designed to be shot prone, like a " Chunk Gun", then you want the stock to be " Straighter", with a shorter DROP AT HEEL, and even a smaller DROP AT COMB. Because of the nature of the position, a LONGER LOP may also be in order to protect you from recoil.

Most shooters would be better served spending more time looking at Cast On( Lefties) or Cast Off for their stocks. Too many shooters are seen laying their cheeks on the top of the comb, to get the sights aligned with their shooting eye, rather than placing the stock next to their cheek.

Do try other guns to see what seems to fit you the best. Then measure them. Take a tape measure to a gun show, or well stocked gunshop, and go through the used gun rack to get a feel for the stocks on them. There are always vertical and horizontal surfaces that you can lay the gun barrels and sights against to find that line to measure drop. Just subtract the height of the top of the sights over the barrel. CAST OFF will not only let you align your shooting eye with your sights, but it also directs recoil away from your face.

 

[roundball]

Try to find a copy of the book The Shotgun Stock, it will give you about as thurough a discussion of LOP as anything you're ever apt to read.

BUT...and not to take away from overall LOP reading...one note to remember about shotguns is that they are not necessarily mounted like a rifle is...they are often more onto the front of the chest wall, not as much over towards the shoulder like rifles sometimes are.
As an example, I had spacers and recoil pads added to all gauges of my Remington 1100/1187 Skeet and Trap guns to get a 14.75" - 15.0" LOP for best fit & handling for me...but that would be too long for my CF rifles, Flintlocks, etc.

 

[Swampman]

So, I measure from the crook of my trigger finger to the crease of my arm at the elbow?

That is correct. For me that's 13 1/2" which is a perfect fit for me.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

If I may, I will share a bit of my training and experience about the subject.

The crook of the finger trick may or may not get you in the neighborhood. The sleeve length deal as well. They are old voodoo tricks that rely on average proportions and very few are average these days.

A correct LOP is somewhere between too long where it's hard or uncomfortable to mount and too short where your thumb is in your nose or runs a chance of busting your nose during discharge of the firearm. It can be anywhere between those extremes where it is most comfortable for the individual.

The drops, cast, pitch, etc. are more critical and specific measurements but are all built off the prechosen LOP. It is possible for someone to be able to shoot comfortably within a range of LOP measurements but their other measurements need to alter with the different LOP's :thumbsup: