Light hunting rifle, straight stock?

[SciAggie]

Yeagers and English sporting rifles all day. These are what I hunt with.
The English sporting rifle is a two barrel affair. One is a rifled .72 caliber; the other a 12 gauge smoothbore. Pictured is the smoothbore. I hunted with this rifle for 20+ years.
I picked up the Yeager a couple years ago and have hunted with it ever since. It's a .62 caliber.
These guns are short, light, point quickly, and are accurate.

 

[BKekatos]

Very interesting thread. I have a question. Can you have a riffled barrel transitioning from octagon to round (like a smooth barrel)? Wouldn’t that reduce the overall gun weight? Do any of the barrel makers offer such a barrel, or would you have to contour it to a round by yourself? Was something like that historically accurate?
BillK

 

[SciAggie]

Very interesting thread. I have a question. Can you have a riffled barrel transitioning from octagon to round (like a smooth barrel)? Wouldn’t that reduce the overall gun weight? Do any of the barrel makers offer such a barrel, or would you have to contour it to a round by yourself? Was something like that historically accurate?
BillK

Octagon to round is possible. I'm not sure how historically accurate, but I believe it would be. I wish the smoothbore barrel had been made that way. I could have had it done - I just wasn't as experienced way back then.

 

[Eterry]

I have a project brewing, that will be a no-nonsense hunting rifle. Most probably in .58, flinter, short barrel in the 26"-28" region, aiming for 6.5#-7# loaded. To make it as comfortable to shoot as possible with stout loads, I'd like to get a much straighter stock than those in use two centuries ago, but at the same time keep the general late 18th/early 19th century looks.

Any pointers to either period rifles that would be a good design start, or new builds that fit into these parameters? Pictures for inspiration is all I need.

I'm used to noticeable recoil (my every-day unmentionable is a 8.7# that pushes 5,000+ ft.lbf at the muzzle), and know from experience that proper stock design makes all the difference between a shootable rifle, and "Ouch... Ain't shooting the second round, thank you Sir...". I also know that when carrying a rifle all day in your hand, 7 lbs feel like a ton less than 9 lbs, hence my specs sheet...

Thanks!

We tend to use much heavier charges of powder than BITD. I have a book with notes from a king's bespoke rifle. It was 16 bore and used a 60 grain charge.
Few would use that light a load in modern times in a rifle.

Also, a stock too straight is a bad thing also. You ever shot a WWI era P-17?

Those things KICKED due to a very straight stock, maybe for trench warfare.
Good luck in your search.

 

[RedOneFive]

Yeagers and English sporting rifles all day. These are what I hunt with.
The English sporting rifle is a two barrel affair. One is a rifled .72 caliber; the other a 12 gauge smoothbore. Pictured is the smoothbore. I hunted with this rifle for 20+ years.
I picked up the Yeager a couple years ago and have hunted with it ever since. It's a .62 caliber.
These guns are short, light, point quickly, and are accurate.
View attachment 314818View attachment 314819

Those are both beautiful! I need to eventually get a Jager.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Those are both beautiful! I need to eventually get a Jager.

Two lovely guns and unlike the UK you can hunt with them. We have used muzzle loading shotguns for rabbits and birds but a bullet is a no no reserved for the rich and some farmers using say a .243 unmentionable , we live in a different world.

I got excited you talking one smooth bore and one rifled , I thought you were talking about a cape rifle , got two I’ve them. Love to hunt with them . At 81 been collecting for years .

Older single barrelled shotguns are normally octagon to round this is a 10g ml shotgun, only see an occasional rifle like it .

. , so is the Swiss rifle too but only a short bit octagonal. Having said Swiss ,it’s a Feldstutzer 1851 private purchase came from Germany , and a clip on utube almost identical was called a Jager

. I lost out on a Jager , last photo , last months Holts auction, really angry I did not put in a higher bid but who knows. Sold £640 plus 25% buyers premium I bid £540 on the computer. Always another auction

Nice to chat

 

[Philip A.]

We tend to use much heavier charges of powder than BITD. I have a book with notes from a king's bespoke rifle. It was 16 bore and used a 60 grain charge.
Few would use that light a load in modern times in a rifle.

Also, a stock too straight is a bad thing also. You ever shot a WWI era P-17?

Those things KICKED due to a very straight stock, maybe for trench warfare.
Good luck in your search.

I have a pretty good idea of what stock dimensions work for me, I can stick with the general outline of my best rifle.

Proper stock design and balance really tame the recoil on that one, I have a colleague whose rifle has exactly the same ballistics as mine and weighs 2 1/2 lbs more, but with a very poor stock design: I shot it once, and refuse to do it again. The brute hurts, $40,000 of poor ergonomy. On mine, I can pop six rounds without bruises (OK, I stop after that, still tries to pull the fillings off your teeth... )

 

[longcruise]

Very interesting thread. I have a question. Can you have a riffled barrel transitioning from octagon to round (like a smooth barrel)? Wouldn’t that reduce the overall gun weight? Do any of the barrel makers offer such a barrel, or would you have to contour it to a round by yourself? Was something like that historically accurate?
BillK

Here's one by Coleraine. I expect others could provide. Maybe Rice?

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/652/4/cole-rf-38

 

[longcruise]

This one is longer but available in 62 rifled.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/652/4/cole-rf

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Yeagers and English sporting rifles all day. These are what I hunt with.
The English sporting rifle is a two barrel affair. One is a rifled .72 caliber; the other a 12 gauge smoothbore. Pictured is the smoothbore. I hunted with this rifle for 20+ years.
I picked up the Yeager a couple years ago and have hunted with it ever since. It's a .62 caliber.
These guns are short, light, point quickly, and are accurate.
View attachment 314818View attachment 314819

There is something important about SciAggie's butt plates..., they're wide and rounded. A proper fitting stock is one thing, but, with black powder rifles a wide butt plate helps to disperse pounds-per-square-inch AND when rounded including the edges of that metal butt plate, that too reduces the effect of recoil pounds-per-square-inch. My Indian trade gun gives me bruises while my Bess with a larger load does not..., rounded butt plate on the latter.

LD

 

[Philip A.]

I like these lines... Elegant and sober. What's the buttplate?

 

[SciAggie]

@Philip A. I'm not sure how to describe the buttplate. This rifle was made by The Gun Works in Oregon over 30 years ago. As @Loyalist Dave pointed out though, they both have a lot of surface area to distribute recoil. Even at that, I shot the yeager last year in the light benchrest aggregate match at our state ML match. By the time that match was over I was plenty tired of the recoil. Just for discussion, I shoot 90 grains of Swiss 2F in both rifles.

 

[oreclan]

I have a project brewing, that will be a no-nonsense hunting rifle. Most probably in .58, flinter, short barrel in the 26"-28" region, aiming for 6.5#-7# loaded. To make it as comfortable to shoot as possible with stout loads, I'd like to get a much straighter stock than those in use two centuries ago, but at the same time keep the general late 18th/early 19th century looks.

Any pointers to either period rifles that would be a good design start, or new builds that fit into these parameters? Pictures for inspiration is all I need.

I'm used to noticeable recoil (my every-day unmentionable is a 8.7# that pushes 5,000+ ft.lbf at the muzzle), and know from experience that proper stock design makes all the difference between a shootable rifle, and "Ouch... Ain't shooting the second round, thank you Sir...". I also know that when carrying a rifle all day in your hand, 7 lbs feel like a ton less than 9 lbs, hence my specs sheet...

Thanks!

Harper's Ferry 1803?

 

[deerstalkert]

Very interesting thread. I have a question. Can you have a riffled barrel transitioning from octagon to round (like a smooth barrel)? Wouldn’t that reduce the overall gun weight? Do any of the barrel makers offer such a barrel, or would you have to contour it to a round by yourself? Was something like that historically accurate?
BillK

Pedersoli makes and sells a copy of the Mortimer rifle. barrel goes oct to twelve to round.
draw back with the Mortimer is the gun is heavy! but most of the weight is in the wood.
mine is a .54 and i think that's tops for them.

 

[Packrat]

The 1803 copies of the Harpers Ferry, octagon to round barrels, light in weight, short barrel, 54 caliber I have an older one, verry accurate and a joy to shoot

 

[longcruise]

Who makes those 1803 copies.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Kits are available from the Rifle Shoppe and Track of the Wolf.

 

[BS]

and,
http://www.longrifles-pr.com/harpersferry.shtml

 

[Urban Coyote]

Thompson Center used octagon to round barrels on their White Mountain Carbine and PA Hunter Rifle and Carbines. I'm especially fond of the PA Hunter Carbine. There were a couple of other manufacturers offering octagon to round barrels as well. I'm not aware of any current models with this type of barrel.

 

[sportster73hp]

There was a member here last year experimenting with large bore shortened TC Renegades. Not sure if this is something you would want.