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[bpbrs]

FYI:
Just so ya know and don't become a poster boy for project exile your pistol has to be on your permit.
If you intend to shoot it & have the accessories to do so.

 

[BIGG DADDY]

oh ok i thought muzzleloaders didnt count for permits?

 

[Zonie]

It depends on the State.
Most States consider a Muzzleloader to be "a gun" so the local gun/hunting laws do apply to them.

At least in Arizona, when some law does not apply to muzzleloaders, the exclusion is mentioned in the law dealing with that issue.

zonie

 

[BIGG DADDY]

Yeah that would help lol.

 

[LittleMoe430]

Paulv,

According to your formula, the maximum amount of powder my 24", 50-cal barrel can burn is 54.2 grains. Does this mean that my usual 75-grain load is just wasting 20+ grains of powder, with no increase in velocity? Am I calculating it correctly (11.5 x 3.1416 x 0.25 x 0.25 x 24)?

LM

 

[Soinkuhndog]

You can download a .pdf file of the CVA manual from[url] cva.com[/url] (you might have to go to FAQ section or site map to get to it).

 

[Zonie]

Little Moe: You crunched the numbers correctly.
Now, whether paulv's formula is true in all cases might be another matter.

Going by the data in Lyman's Black Powder Handbook, a .50 cal X 24 inch barrel with a 1:48 twist had these muzzle velocity (in FPS) results with Goex FFg powder:

40 gr = 1139
50 gr = 1250
60 GR = 1362
70 gr = 1450
80 gr = 1538
90 gr = 1580
100 gr = 1622

These numbers would seem to indicate that more powder does create more velocity so it isn't just burning without contributing something.

Sense it is contributing to an increased velocity, the question is, "Is the gain worth it?".

Looking at the 50 gr vs the 80 gr velocities, the gain is 288 FPS. That is a 23 percent velocity gain by using 60 percent more powder.

In my opinion, only you can determine the answer to that one. :grin:
zonie

 

[Snakebite]

Little Moe,
I'm no math genius, but you need to square the caliber (.50 x .50 = .25)

I calucated mine for a .54 cal with a 34" barrel:
11.5 x 3.1416 = 36.1284
.54 x .54 = 0.2916
36.1284 x 0.2916 = 10.535
10.535 x 34 = 358grs.

Now let me make it perfectly clear that I am NOT in the habit of loading 358grs of powder, nor do I think anyone should, , 120 is max that I've ever used and I'm sure some people will say that is way too much, but for hunting and out to 120 yards on the range, it works in MY, rifle. What I am saying is that according to the formula provided anything over 358grs does not burn in the barrel of my rifle.
I'm no math genius like I said, and if I made a mistake, sorry about that, but that is the way I think the formula is supposed to work.
Adios and good shooting,
Chris

 

[Zonie]

Snakebite:
I think paulv's formula said "...11.5 grains times Pi( 3.1416) times the radius of the bore, squared...."
In your calculations, you would get a better answer if you divided the bore by two, and then squared it.

This would give you an answer of 89.55 grains for your 34 inch barrel.

zonie

 

[Snakebite]

Zonie,

I stand corrected, :bow: I said I was no math genius. You are right, and just to verify that, I check with my wife who is a 3rd grade teacher. I don't know about that formula though, it's just my opinion but I think my rifle burns all the powder even with 120grs. In almost 30 years I never chronographed it, but at 100yds sighting at 6:00 it's dead on and at 120 or 125 with a center hold it's still dead on.

Thanks for the correction.
Chris

 

[paulvallandigham]

Little Moe: In a word, Yes, you are wasting powder. What you get is more pressure because of the added mass, more recoil, and perhaps a more efficient burning of some of the powder in the barrel because of the slight pressure increase. You may also get a few extra fps in velocity, but not enough to be worth the extra cost of the powder you use.

55 grains of FFFg powder in a short barreled .50 is a good charge, and will certainly take a deer with any broadside hit out to 100 yds. So don't be apologizing to anyone for using that load. Many of the members here talk about using 50 grains to take deer all the time. I shot 50 grains in a 45 cal. rifle with a 26 inch barrel, and was at the maximum amount that could possibly be burned in that short barrel. In fact, FFg powder did not shoot as well, simply because it did not all burn inside the barrel using 55 grains. I used strictly FFFg powder in the short .45 cal. rifle.


SNAKEBITE: YOU USED A DIAMETER SQUARED, instead of the radius.
For a .54 cal rifle with a 34 inch barrel, it is .27 x .27 = .0729. times 3.1416 = .2290; times 11.5 = 2.6337: times 34 = 89.54 grains.

You can shoot 90 grains max out of that barrel of yours, not 358 ! Again, you can stuff more powder in the barrel, but you are burning it outside the barrel, and simply adding more recoil and smoke without getting anything appreciable in velocity. That 230 grain ball does not have to be going a " Gee-whiz " velocity to kill game. Its weight does the penetration, and the killing, if you hit where you aim. If ou can find some tables on the .54 I think you will be delighted at the velocity you can obtain with only 80 grains of powder, and what kind of killing power that round ball has at 100 yds. Using data from Hornady on shooting round ball in a .54 cal. percussion rifle, 80 grains of FFg powder will give you a little more than 1500 fps at the muzzle.

Killing Power( KP) is dtermined by multiplying velocity( 1500) times bullet weight ( 230 grains) times caliber ( .54) divided by 100 . Or a KP of 1863 at the muzzle. Assume that at 100 yds, that ball is now only going 1000 fps. The KP at 100 yds. will be 1242. NOT BAD at all when compared to a 180 grain .30 caliber bullet at 2700 fps, having a KP of 1480, or .30-30 cal. 150 grain bullet going 2300 fps. having a KP of 1035.

Remeber that a lead ball kills because even at very low velocity, it still expands its diameter, and makes a much larger primary wound channel than do modern firearms.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Zonie, where it gets real krazy is buying a ML in a neighboring State. If the State you live in considers it a gun, not even some State Police Firearms Units know what to tell you...that's when the lawyers get happy makin $BIG BUCKS to protect you from BIG BROTHER :youcrazy: :shake: . A retired cop I know said it best: he walked into a store and bought a ML. He asked if a permit was needed, I.D., etc., and was told "No...It's like buying a wrench, just take it to the cashier!" :shocked2: I wish I could have been there to see my cop friend's kisser :haha: . All the best, Dave

 

[G. W. Gill]

I learned from an old man that if I was to see red droplets near the end of the barrel that was the charge to use. Up and down a little to the best group. He called those red drops " blooding the barrel". Said it was the indicator of the right powder charge. Blackpowder of coarse. It has worked for me.