Loading revolvers question.

[Stantheman86]

The chambers and barrel in a .36 caliber 1851 were remachined to nominally .40 caliber.
Colt had tinkered around with making prototype .40 calibers on the 1851 frame and I wanted to see how it would work. Maybe the national split and war got in the way of further development but he had a great idea.

Even though Sam Colt died, the idea of the .41 Colt hung on until the .41 Long Colt New Armies came out.....

 

[Stantheman86]

Even if you had “ the dreaded chain-fire “ what harm is there? Most percussion revolver shooters act like a pistol will blow up like a pipe bomb if they have one.
The balls coming out of the adjacent chambers only have a velocity of about 200 feet per second or less.
The cheapest BB gun has a higher muzzle velocity than that.

The odds of more than maybe one other chamber firing are low unless there's an issue like loose ball fit, really sloppy cap fit or a combination of other errors. Or pitted chambers.

I've seen one video on YouTube of a guy with a .44 Brass frame Navy having something like 4 chambers go off and I don't think the gun was even damaged. There had to be some glaring defect in something for that to even occur.

 

[Bad Karma]

.41 balls in .404" chambers.
Lanolin-olive oil-beeswax.
No drip, no mess, no loss of powder volume, no flash overs.
View attachment 127838

I loved that idea when I first saw it. And I’m liking it more and more…

 

[Jason60chev]

I’ve read up on paper cartridges a little bit. Have several “kits” and even two Civil War era reproductions of Colts bullets. Union civil war troopers were supplied with paper cartridges manufactured in the north by the 100’s of thousands, by young boys and girls in factories. Supplied in 6 cartridges paper wrapped boxes that also contained the caps plus an extra. That would indicate that the revolvers were intended to be reloaded on the battle field. If one could, during battle, reload a musket surely one could reload a revolver.

I dabbled with paper cartridges making several hundred until the tedium of doing so out weighed the advantages. I can attest to the fact that a properly made paper cartridge makes reloading a very simple process with the only fiddly part being capping.

We enjoy making and loading paper cartridges for the "authenticity", historical interpretation (Not that loading loose powder and ball isn't authentic). Also as a conformation that they work.

 

[Mattmatt617]

How would the old timers kept moisture out of the cylinder?

Keep it out of the rain…

 

[FishDFly]

A winner.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I think everyone loads these pistols the way they were shown when they first started. Many different methods, and none of them are wrong.

Disagree heartily. I have known shooters who were taught no wad or grease was necessary. They continued with this practice until, one day, a chain fire woke them up. In this game we are (or should be) constantly learning and evolving with our loading techniques. All within the bounds of safety.....I hope.

 

[OkieDougie]

Disagree heartily. I have known shooters who were taught no wad or grease was necessary. They continued with this practice until, one day, a chain fire woke them up. In this game we are (or should be) constantly learning and evolving with our loading techniques. All within the bounds of safety.....I hope.

Exactly. Folks do it as they have done until an issue happens. Or maybe they are tinkering with accuracy or other fine tuning. Then they adjust. I am a firm beliver that there needs to be a barrier (other than the ball) between the powder and the air. Tried grease on top of ball and for me it blows grease everywhere and makes the gun very slippy. Firm wad on top of the powder, then grease, then ball, adds a good barrier and prevents the gun from getting slippy from blown grease.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Exactly. Folks do it as they have done until an issue happens. Or maybe they are tinkering with accuracy or other fine tuning. Then they adjust. I am a firm beliver that there needs to be a barrier (other than the ball) between the powder and the air. Tried grease on top of ball and for me it blows grease everywhere and makes the gun very slippy. Firm wad on top of the powder, then grease, then ball, adds a good barrier and prevents the gun from getting slippy from blown grease.

Thanks. Yeppers, I eventually went to the waxed wad over powder. World of difference from trying to handle a filthy, slickery firearm.

 

[FishDFly]

Disagree heartily. I have known shooters who were taught no wad or grease was necessary. They continued with this practice until, one day, a chain fire woke them up. In this game we are (or should be) constantly learning and evolving with our loading techniques. All within the bounds of safety.....I hope.

Chain fires come from flame entering the nipple. If a ball is properly sized, cuts lead when seated, it is impossible for flame to get around a ball to the powder.

 

[Red Owl]

On the paper cartridges. As I understand it, at least for the federal troops, nothing else was used for cap and ball revolvers. I have tried to locate flasks, etc. that would have been issued if troops reloaded that way and I've never found anything.
The conical bullet had a long pointy tip and not much as to driving bands- which under the pressure of the ramrod would get the conical out of line- accuracy suffered.
The big worry was the paper completely burning up. If an ember was still in the chamber and you rammed in a fresh round- it would blow up right in your face.
Today cigarette paper is used but it doesn't burn up as well as the original ammunition so BE CAREFUL.

 

[Whughett]

Disagree heartily. I have known shooters who were taught no wad or grease was necessary. They continued with this practice until, one day, a chain fire woke them up. In this game we are (or should be) constantly learning and evolving with our loading techniques. All within the bounds of safety.....I hope.

To my knowledge none of Colts printed instructions for loading his revolvers mentioned grease or wads. IMO lube serves one purpose and one purpose only.

 

[Stantheman86]

I think only 6 extra rounds were carried in the cartridge box , but I'm sure Officers and other guys carried extra packs in their saddle bags or haversacks.

It seems like the popular opinion is that conical bullets in the revolvers were thought to have better stopping power and they were easier to make cartridges out of.

The Walker was loaded with a flask and loose picket bullets and also the Dragoon in the 1840s. There were also non-combustible cartridges in the 1840s-50s that were basically smaller versions of a musket or rifle cartridge, they were bit open, powder poured in and the bullet removed. A while back I saw a whole article on these.

I'm sure the Eras Gone gentleman knows way more about this stuff

 

[Hawk78]

Howdy, Did a search but didnt find what I was looking for.

Going to take my 1851 navy to the range for the first time, have a question.

When loading a lubed wad over the powder, under the ball. Do you still need to add lube/grease over the ball to prevent chain fires ?

Thanks !

Nope.

Thanks Dave and Mushka !

They are correct. Ido the same.

 

[Erwan]

On the paper cartridges. As I understand it, at least for the federal troops, nothing else was used for cap and ball revolvers. I have tried to locate flasks, etc. that would have been issued if troops reloaded that way and I've never found anything.

There were however very good cartridges, better than the paper cartridges (nitrated paper or treated with acids) and without any residue in the 1860s, just for example :
- US32345A - Improved water-proof cartridge - Google Patents
- US32345A - Improved water-proof cartridge - Google Patents
Some time ago I was still making skin cartridges, but it was not so easy to find the right qualities of sausage casing like in the 19th to make the cases, so I stopped it : too much time wasted just for fun....

 

[Stantheman86]

Combustible Cartridges look fun and if you want to be historically accurate, they are the way to go.

I tried playing around with non combustible paper cartridges, with my Dragoon but spending half a day off making cartridges that are still kinda fiddly and awkward to use vs just bringing a flask and loose bullets/balls to the range to pop off 4 cylinders didn't seem worth it

I have Walker/ Dragoon flasks but I have yet to try them, apparently they aren't very reliable

 

[Red Owl]

You are correct on the waterproof-I forget the company but I think it was Johnson "something" Johnson & Dow??? The army was pretty tough, the round was lacquered, etc. and soaked in water 3 or 4 hours and then all of them were supposed to fire, if only a couple out of a thousand failed- the whole thing rejected.
For any one interested- there is a lot on the net, just check out combustible cartridges.
And- I did some testing a few years back. A percussion that you simply rammed in the combustibles BUT had to cap the nipples, versus a 1873 Peacemaker where you had to eject the old round and then load a new. I think it took 20 seconds on the Peacemaker and 40 "ish" seconds on the percussion but combustible cartridges were pretty amazing for the time.
And, the various armories in the Confederacy (Richmond, etc. ) also made combustible cartridges.

 

[Erwan]

If I correctly remember, the three principal brand (the more knowest) were Hazard, American Powder, Johnson & Dow and certainly Johnson & Dow more than Hazard working a bit more for Colt...
A little post about this here (I'm goin' to read it right now) : https://www.coltforum.com/threads/paper-cartridges.391441/page-2 .

 

[Bad Karma]

Keep it out of the rain…

Once the chambers are sealed by the bullet and cap you can submerge the revolver in water, take it out, shake it off and fire away.

 

[gunpa]

I've used 454 balls with lube wad under it. Nice ring of lead shaved and very accurate. Lee use to make a conical mold not sure if they still do. More rounded and supposed to work in Remington new army.??