long barrel vs shorter

[senseisugarbear]

The portability issue is not that big of a deal....Living here on the Platte River bottom , I have suplimented my income by going out on an Island And digging CUSTOM MADE post holes. A man can order a variety of depths ,or a 12 pack of his favorite hole..If prices are kept reasonable ,I can count on plenty of repete business after the SPRING RUN OFF...A 12 Pack should last the average hunter a full season. Competion shooters may want to buy by the 100...... Be Safe>>Wally

 

[ronaldrothb49]

The first rifle I built back in the late 70's was a .40 cal. 7/8" by 40 " Douglas barrel. I won more matches with that rifle than any other I have owned. Many target shooters myself included like a rifle that is muzzle heavy. I have built and shot swamped barrels but for myself I have found no advantage with them. I have found I have better luck using straight barrels by cutting the barrel back to balance it to my liking. Doubt I would even consider a 44" barrel if you look at originals you will find a lot with barrels longer than that but I seriously doubt they were shooting them offhand. Currently thinking about a future project of doing a 13/16" X 42" .40 cal. if I can find a barrel

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

They weren't shooting them offhand? Really?
Where do you guys come up with this stuff?
The guys I have shot with for the past 40 years would laugh themselves silly if you dug a hole or brought a stool to load with.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

I have built nearly 400 guns for people and very few had barrels less than 42 inches long. I must have been making guns for all the insane people.

 

[büchsenmacher64]

They weren't shooting them offhand? Really?
Where do you guys come up with this stuff?
The guys I have shot with for the past 40 years would laugh themselves silly if you dug a hole or brought a stool to load with.

Because they have a sense of humor.

 

[Cruzatte]

OK...this thread clinches it. On the top of my bucket list is a French trade gun with a 51¼" barrel, 20 ga. (quatre pieds). Heck, I might even go 57½" (quatre pieds et demi) I'd expect the gun to top out at 7 US st'd. pounds at most. Oh...btw I'm 5' 5¾" tall. About the size of a first generation French settler. If they could heft, load, & clean such long guns, by golly, so can I. This is gonna be a hoot!

 

[tenngun]

So, have we decided if longer barrels are worth it? Or are they simply a pain to load and should be avoided?

Yes

 

[nchawkeye]

Most originals had barrels over 40 inches, since this is a Traditional Muzzleloader Forum you would assume that most on here want to learn how to shoot traditional muzzleloaders...I guess some don't....

 

[ronaldrothb49]

Most originals had barrels over 40 inches, since this is a Traditional Muzzleloader Forum you would assume that most on here want to learn how to shoot traditional muzzleloaders...I guess some don't....

If you look in Rifles of Colonial America you will find barrel lengths that range from 19" to 72" and most everything in between. You find rifles with barrels that are swamped, tapered, octagon to round, round and listed as just octagon. You find Jaeger style rifles made from curly maple and Jaeger's with longer barrels. You find rifles with wood patch box covers and brass covers, Shumway does point out that brass is strictly an American thing. The calibers are all over the place many are listed as smooth bore. You have rifles that still show Germanic influence, You have rifles which are starting to show the golden age styles. So what is a traditional muzzleloader? Most anything you can make today was already made 250 years ago.

 

[nchawkeye]

The key word was most...

 

[ronaldrothb49]

The key word was most...

And how does that make a the clearly documented rifles with a shorter barrel not traditional?

 

[tenngun]

Most originals had barrels over 40 inches, since this is a Traditional Muzzleloader Forum you would assume that most on here want to learn how to shoot traditional muzzleloaders...I guess some don't....

Sort of, gun history is full of short guns across the centuries, although long guns seem to have been a majority

 

[tenngun]

Looked up some velocities on Lyman
Looked at .50 loaded with 3f GOex
A 26” barrel gets a velocity of 1348 on a 50 grain charge
A 43” barrel gets 1506, about 150 fps for 17”. Interestingly to find a 28” barrel gets 1333, actually a velocity loss for 2”.
But 50 grains is light. I bet on average shooters shoot 50s with 60-80 grains
80 grains in a 26” barrel kicks out at 1690.
A 43” 1854. Again about 150 for 17”
Let’s go to tops, Lyman shows charges up to 170 grains in the 43”, almost 1:1. And 2354 fps.
I’m willing to bet even our hard core big charge guys don’t go over 120. That still will throw out a ball at 2243.
I bet if we did a pole there aren’t to many guys that go over 100 in a .50
At 43” that gets 2095.
A 26” gets 1882, a little over 200 fps.
But what’s the down range.
2100 fps in a .50 slows to 1181 at a hundred yards, 1900 fps slows to 1075, just over 100fps.
I don’t hunt at long range, at fifty yards it’s 1585 vs 1425, a 150 fps, both will drop a deer, though the 150 fps will make a deer deader right????
Ok can’t get deader than dead, time in flight is .08 seconds vs .14 seconds. Even a running deer won’t go far in the .06 second differnce. Provided you were going to try a running shot
Drop is 1.18” vs 1.3”
Of course you can just play with charges.
A 90 grain charge in a 43” barrel gets 2000 fps, the same as 110 in a 26” or 100grains in a 32” barrel
Of course worries about drop go away with sighting for your hunting range
In the end the reason to have a long barrel is looks or historical accuracy in your gun.

 

[Genny Goat]

I like to have what the originals had, so in my case I like the earlier guns and most had longer barrels (40-48 inches). I have an older Kibler SMR with a Rice barrel that I think is 46 inches. If I remember correctly the newer ones have a 44 inch barrel.

 

[amicalola]

I Always used a 34 inch barrel and then bought a 44 inch 40 cal flintlock. what a pain it is to load and wipe out.No reason for these long barrels,hard to load and more barrel to clean and hold fouling more being a 40 cal... and no better accuracy .Actually i did better with a 45 with a 35 inch barrel.. so iam definitly going to sell it.

It’s preference. I disagree on cleaning or fowling (most my barrels are 42-48” long and cleaning/fowling I don’t see a difference to my 28” Scheutzen). Don’t think long barrels are more accurate (except for the sight radius). Short barrels are stiffer and probably more easy to load tune, but I’m speculating.

But you want short barrels, sell it!

 

[smokepolehall]

The first rifle I built back in the late 70's was a .40 cal. 7/8" by 40 " Douglas barrel. I won more matches with that rifle than any other I have owned. Many target shooters myself included like a rifle that is muzzle heavy. I have built and shot swamped barrels but for myself I have found no advantage with them. I have found I have better luck using straight barrels by cutting the barrel back to balance it to my liking. Doubt I would even consider a 44" barrel if you look at originals you will find a lot with barrels longer than that but I seriously doubt they were shooting them offhand. Currently thinking about a future project of doing a 13/16" X 42" .40 cal. if I can find a barrel

I have a .40 cal XX Douglas 42" LH Cockran caplock its 13/16 barrel very accurate love it. Tn. Poor boy i had Jack Gardner make me back in 78. Now there is no way i want a barrel over 42" long now with 15/16" or thicker n heavier at my age. Longer or shorter its all about a personal choice.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

The most accurate muzzle loaders ever made had barrels under 30" in length.

 

[nkbj]

Higher velocity and the longer site radius can be a winning combination when you find your load.
The old Dixie Gun Works .50 with the 43" barrel was a blast to take to Carter's Country range there north of Houston Intercontinental. During the annual sighting in of the deer rifles guys would be flinching so bad they couldn't get their scopes adjusted, I'd be eating away the bullseye with 90 grains of FFg, they'd be turning their spotting scopes to look at those half inch holes...
Couldn't help but grin. Hey it was funny!

 

[ronaldrothb49]

I have a .40 cal XX Douglas 42" LH Cockran caplock its 13/16 barrel very accurate love it. Tn. Poor boy i had Jack Gardner make me back in 78. Now there is no way i want a barrel over 42" long now with 15/16" or thicker n heavier at my age. Longer or shorter its all about a personal choice.

Got to love those old Douglas barrels. I have a .45 that has never been in a rifle. Got all the parts to make it but then I also have all the parts to make 4 other rifles and a pistol. I see no advantage to a longer barrel and when I can go through my books and find shorter barreled rifles don't try to tell me they aren't traditional. Most of the old originals had a shorter LOP because the average height was shorter why aren't they claiming that the LOP must be shorter to be traditional?

 

[IanH]

Most of the old originals had a shorter LOP because the average height was shorter why aren't they claiming that the LOP must be shorter to be traditional?

Because that would be.......inconvenient.

Cotton ball patches weren't traditional for many of the guns in which modern shooters use them. I don't see this being mentioned much, either.