long barrel vs shorter

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Lots of very sad photos from the late unpleasantness with the north. Many show these baby faced boys besides guns that tower over them.
German rifles of late seventeenth and early eighteenth century were in the 32” range. Hines made 38” and Im thinking the Marshal rifle was about 36”.
Yet in to the revolution and beyond in to federal ‘golden age’ we see long.
I’m hard pressed to think it was anything more then style.
I read long ago that the reason for long barrels on colonist-made rifles was mainly because they were forced to make their own powder, which was generally much inferior to European manufactured products. They needed the much longer barrels so that the slower burning powder could accelerate the ball enough to be truly useful. The long rifles were the offspring of Jaeger style rifles that many of the early gunsmiths produced. The smaller calibres developed to save powder and lead, and because generally the game hunted wasn't anywhere as nasty as wild boar; you don't need a .62 to shoot squirrels, turkeys, or deer (with the occaisonal bear thrown in just to keep things interesting). As folks moved West, elk and buffalo were hunted on open plains, so larger calibres were desirous once again, and the guns got shorter for ease of carry on horseback, also, powder had improved and was more available. The military guns were long because in most cases, the troops would only get off a couple of shots before they fixed bayonets (thus turning their long guns into pikes) and charged.
 
Why would you spend multi thousands of dollars on a custom gun with a relatively short barrel of 44 inches and have it end up weighing 11 pounds?
I bought it many years ago before I knew better. It is VERY well made. Excellent craftsmanship. Inletting is perfect. Dovetails cut in barrel for sights and underlugs were done so well, they are seamless in appearance. Stock is a wonderful piece of maple. Hand scraped. I don't know the builder as the rifle is not signed. But whoever built it surely cared about that project. Everyone I've showed it to has swooned over it until they held it. Then it was like "oh my it's heavy!" I bought it new/unfired from an estate. It is worth what I paid for it. However it has a straight octagon 15/16" barrel. I REALLY wished it had a swamped barrel. 15/16" is somewhat overkill for a .45. A slimmer profile swamped barrel would make the rifle awesome for offhand shooting. As it was built, it makes for a great 'over the log' gun. It IS very accurate off the bench. Actual weight is 10# 13 ounce.

edit- I misremembered the actual weight in my post you quoted. I just weighed it before replying to your post.
 
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All my flintlocks are 38" except for one .45 that has a 36" tube. I had a 42" .50 flintlock for many years that had that perfect "hang" for an offhand shooting rifle and I shot extremely well with it. Hard to get into my little pickup and bad arthritis in my hands made it painful to handle. But on a target it rested that front sight almost without moving on a target or on a deer.
 
I bought it many years ago before I knew better. It is VERY well made. Excellent craftsmanship. Inletting is perfect. Dovetails cut in barrel for sights and underlugs were done so well, they are seamless in appearance. Stock is a wonderful piece of maple. Hand scraped. I don't know the builder as the rifle is not signed. But whoever built it surely cared about that project. Everyone I've showed it to has swooned over it until they held it. Then it was like "oh my it's heavy!" I bought it new/unfired from an estate. It is worth what I paid for it. However it has a straight octagon 15/16" barrel. I REALLY wished it had a swamped barrel. 15/16" is somewhat overkill for a .45. A slimmer profile swamped barrel would make the rifle awesome for offhand shooting. As it was built, it makes for a great 'over the log' gun. It IS veryo accurate off the bench. Actual weight is 10# 13 ounce.

edit- I made misremembered the actual weight in my post you quoted. I just weighed it before replying to your post.
I can see your problem now
Even a .54 in a straight 44 inch 15/16 barrel would be heavy. You're 45 should make a great bench gun.:thumb:
 
I read long ago that the reason for long barrels on colonist-made rifles was mainly because they were forced to make their own powder, which was generally much inferior to European manufactured products. They needed the much longer barrels so that the slower burning powder could accelerate the ball enough to be truly useful. The long rifles were the offspring of Jaeger style rifles that many of the early gunsmiths produced. The smaller calibres developed to save powder and lead, and because generally the game hunted wasn't anywhere as nasty as wild boar; you don't need a .62 to shoot squirrels, turkeys, or deer (with the occaisonal bear thrown in just to keep things interesting). As folks moved West, elk and buffalo were hunted on open plains, so larger calibres were desirous once again, and the guns got shorter for ease of carry on horseback, also, powder had improved and was more available. The military guns were long because in most cases, the troops would only get off a couple of shots before they fixed bayonets (thus turning their long guns into pikes) and charged.
I have heard this before and for sure know of no argument that goes against it. It just makes a ton of sense if you think about going in to the woods for a fortnight or season. A 54 gives you 32 shot to the pound. A hundred shots is three pounds. Where as a twelve bore is twelve shots to the pound, eight pounds to a hundred.
However I look at gun history.
The first rifles were short and about .50 caliber, the gun wasn’t shouldered but held in front like contemporary cross bows. Barrels tended to be in the two foot range.
Many of the early matchlock military pieces were less than three feet.
With the invention of bayonets it made sense to have a long barrel, as tge gun became a spear.
But while this was going on long became very popular for Dutch English and French arms. Not just in country but back in europe. A fine English Fowling piece from 1700 was long. As was a good Dutch gun.
Cr 1740 as riflesmiths began to spread in Pennsylvania the typical gun in New France, Dutch New York, english Virginia was long, and mostly imported from Europe
While it was Germans making the rifles it was English buying them.
I wonder about style.
Chicken egg question, did buyers drive the market for practical reasons or esthetic reasons.
I look at how quick half stocks took over starting about 1810, following english style starting about 1790. Yet full stocks ranged the norm for SMR. Even long after they virtually disappeared in the rest of the country.
Makes me wonder.
I am put in mind of French trade guns. To compete with the French market the English consciencly imitated it, then later when Americans and Belgian makers were supplying NWG they directly copied the English trade guns. Even the sea serpent side plate ( dragon) started as a mark of sea guns for civilian ships on Dutch vessels, but this became the mark of trade guns, and fell out of use on civilian guns.
 
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A tall man in 1780 was a lot shorter than a tall man today and they managed 5-6' rifles and muskets just fine.
That's why they had a short life span 'scalped before they finished loading ! Injuns got more scalps and closer to a new rifle with less effort/Ed
 
I bought it many years ago before I knew better. It is VERY well made. Excellent craftsmanship. Inletting is perfect. Dovetails cut in barrel for sights and underlugs were done so well, they are seamless in appearance. Stock is a wonderful piece of maple. Hand scraped. I don't know the builder as the rifle is not signed. But whoever built it surely cared about that project. Everyone I've showed it to has swooned over it until they held it. Then it was like "oh my it's heavy!" I bought it new/unfired from an estate. It is worth what I paid for it. However it has a straight octagon 15/16" barrel. I REALLY wished it had a swamped barrel. 15/16" is somewhat overkill for a .45. A slimmer profile swamped barrel would make the rifle awesome for offhand shooting. As it was built, it makes for a great 'over the log' gun. It IS very accurate off the bench. Actual weight is 10# 13 ounce.

edit- I made misremembered the actual weight in my post you quoted. I just weighed it before replying to your post.
I spent some years wanting a NWG, and finances fell in to place and I bought a kit from Track. Cant Praise it enough, great kit, shot great, but after building it it just wasn’t a gun I fell in love with, sold it about two years later, sometimes what looks great just doesn’t work out for you.
 
I Always used a 34 inch barrel and then bought a 44 inch 40 cal flintlock. what a pain it is to load and wipe out.No reason for these long barrels,hard to load and more barrel to clean and hold fouling more being a 40 cal... and no better accuracy .Actually i did better with a 45 with a 35 inch barrel.. so iam definitly going to sell it.
I have a musket with a 60" barrel. Semper Fi.

60 inch Musket.png
 
Had 7 m.l.s over the years. Now just 2. A Dave Noble l.h. Hawken with g.r.r.w. barrel 36 inches long made 1979. And a 46 inch barreled l.h. longrifle which is my favorite. The Hawken barrel is the most accurate but like the flinter more. Never had trouble loading it.
 
Was spectating at the Alvin York shoot back in March. Some of those long-barrelled chunk guns had the shooters standing on short stools to load. My guess is they did it that way due to having many fellow shooters in the loading area so loading the rifle at an angle wasn't an option.
 
Over the past 5 decades my ML’s have had barrel lengths ranging from 28” to 44”, with my most used rifles having lengths in the 38” to 42” range. My preference in barrel lengths has always had more to do with the particular rifles appearance(design/era), balance, and overall weight. The latter two factors of balance and weight could often be influenced by the choice of barrel shape(ie. diameter, straight vs swamped). With my exclusive use of PLRB”s, factors of velocity, accuracy, and ease of loading were generally not major factors that were influenced by my choice of barrel length when considering my hunting/shooting requirements.
 
So, have we decided if longer barrels are worth it? Or are they simply a pain to load and should be avoided? :)
 
Larry (Omaha),
Excellent idea about digging that 16” hole to drop the butt of the rifle into for loading. And I know from experience, that works great. Having the shooting bench constructed with a step/ bench is brilliant.

Don’t get me wrong. The hole is simpler and doesn’t require a lot of skill to construct. My main concern with the hole, once you have one that works for you, is the portability
 

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