Loyalist arms and the 1768 Charleville musket review

[Matt85]

This stuff has been covered over and over again, the points against these guns have been pointed out before by shooters and builders, if you are handy with tools are competent with musket work you could well get your moneys worth and get a good gun . :yakyak:

actually i havent seen any decent reviews in this forum on Loyalistarms muskets. ive seen occasional gripes but nothing on par with a review. its what motivated me to make this post.

i made this post and constantly update it for people to use when considering buying a gun from Loyalistarms. this review is not for all india made guns as the quallity seems to vary from vendor to vendor.

-Matt

 

[palladius]

My Model 1777 from Middlesex doesn't exhibit this problem either.

 

[trettie]

I have two muskets from Loyalist (a matchlock and an English lock), and both barrels are consistently bored from muzzle to breach.

 

[Matt85]

ok just came back from the range. fired 22 shots and learned alot about shooting a musket.

load data:
-bare .685 hand cast balls that have been rolling around in my truck for a week. they are slightly golf balled with their sprues worn down.
-i tried 80, 90, 100, and 110 grains of schuetzen FFg, but i settled on 90 grains.
-i used torn off pieces of an old used target as wadding to prevent the ball from coming off the powder.

first thing i learned is that the black english flints from trackofthewolf dont work worth crud in my musket. they are onley good for a handfull of shots before the need knapping. in total the black english flint i used lasted 32 shots and was knapped 6 times before it became useless. my texas chert flint from Loyalistarms on the other hand is still going strong at 42 shots without any knapping. i also tried a couple shots with a french amber flint from trackofthewolf and it performed well but i onley did 4 shots before putting the black english back in (i wanted to finish it off).

ive figured out where this gun shoots but figuring out to get my sight picture to match where it hits is a work in progress. the gun seems to group pretty well but its VERY low and to the right. id say around 12" low and 7" to the right using the lollipop hold at 25 yards. i think i might try a larger ball, maby something around .695-.700 (muzzle measures at .712). any one got a mold that makes these and is willing to sell me some balls to try out?

below is the last target of the day. the 3 shot group was with the lollipop hold aiming at the very top left corner of the paper. the stray shot in the left corner was me goofing up. the shot just high of the center was my last shot of the night and i was trying out sight picture that looks like it might work if i can repeat it.

-matt

 

[okawbow]

I had a much lower point of impact with my French musket, also with a bare ball. Newspaper cartridges impacted higher, and tighter patched balls, in a clean barrel, hit right on target, holding the top of the bayonet lug on center.

You might want to try some wadding under the ball also. You are losing a lot of velocity with a loose ball.

I'm at about 50 strikes with the English flint that came from Veteran arms on my gun. I've had 1 non flash, and 1 flash in the pan after I cleaned between shots. The flint needed knapped once also. Could be your frizzen spring is a little stiff.

 

[Matt85]

I had a much lower point of impact with my French musket, also with a bare ball. Newspaper cartridges impacted higher, and tighter patched balls, in a clean barrel, hit right on target, holding the top of the bayonet lug on center.

You might want to try some wadding under the ball also. You are losing a lot of velocity with a loose ball.

I'm at about 50 strikes with the English flint that came from Veteran arms on my gun. I've had 1 non flash, and 1 flash in the pan after I cleaned between shots. The flint needed knapped once also. Could be your frizzen spring is a little stiff.

since normal wads and patched balls wont work in my gun. i think im going to try flax tow as wadding under the ball. flax tow should be spongy enough to expand once it gets to the larger breech area.

i dont think my think there is anything wrong with my lock. i think the black english flint i was using just sucked. i still have 5 more black english flints to try, maby that was just a bad one. now if my lock was the problem then the texas chert would be burning up quick aswell. at 42 shots without a single failure and no required knapping the texas chert is really impressing me. if the rest of the texas cherts (5 more) perform even close to aswell as this one then i will buy a bunch more from loyalistarms.

i will also be trying some Fg powder in the near future as ive heard some people have gotten improved accuracy with it in muskets.

-matt

 

[Matt85]

ok, i think its about time i wrap this review up with a review of loyalistarms as a company.


customer service: the customer service from this company was friendly but seemed to have a very limited knowledge of black powder at least from a shooters point of view. i suspect they would be more ideal for reenactors. in general they were quick to respond to all my emails and very polite on the phone.

as a business: at first glance they seem like a honest business but upon going threw the buying process their business practices came across as misleading and even somewhat underhanded. there were a great deal of hidden expenses that you dont realize untell all is said and done. for starters their qoutes are WRONG all of them. any price they qoute you is less then what you will actually pay. the exchange rate they are going by is very dated and when i brought this up to them they simply told me i was wrong. they are also very slow, they claim to not build guns untell you order them. this means after buying the gun you will find yourself waiting around a month before they even ship it out. i also spent most of the buying process under the impression they would test the barrel before sending it to me. they at numerous times made it sound like thats what they did. i found out at a later time that they do not test the barrels and expect you to do this.

shipping: after waiting a month for them to ship the gun out expect to wait another two weeks for shipping. this may not be their fault but its a definite turn off for customers in the US who have already waited for a month. the shipping is also about $20 more expensive most likely because they ship two packages seperately.

overall: i would not recomend Loyalist arms, expecially if you live in the US. there are better companies in country that will offer equal or better prices and they will be more honest about the whole situation aswell. both veteran arms and middlesex village are very honest companies that ive exchanged emails with regarding their products. in the future i will do business with them instead.

thank you for reading
-matt

 

[nkbj]

Wish I'da known of them while in NS and could have stopped in.

 

[Wolf Paw]

Thanks for the review... I'm considering getting something till I can build what I want and they were an option.

 

[trettie]

Matt,

Sorry you had a bad experience. I've bought two pieces from Loyalist and can't say I ran into any of those problems. I never had the impression they would proof the piece unless I specifically asked, and their quotes were what I paid. They even did a custom color on the stock.