Loyalist Arms Bess

[Hayfoot]

I don't try to, I just put my head down lean forward and keep pushing ahead.

 

[eaglesnester]

I understand perfectly well why they transported yur bess to Kentucky. This is so they can charge you a sky high shipping and brokerage fee. This is the way UPS works, they are crooks and have very nefariousness business practices. Their record of thefts, lost and damaged cargo is legendary.

 

[firemanjim68]

After looking over this post and seeing the pics l think I'll be buying one of these muskets too.

 

[FlinterNick]

They are not gone over by a gunsmith they do not have.* They are inspected by basically a family member and any obvious malfunction they try to address before they ship as nothing, ever, gets returned to India of course...

Middlesex actually does a decent job of testing, taking down, and quickly tuning each lock before shipment. Been there for many hours in the shop as this went on. They and Loyalist do have a clue regarding this, but, time is money and there is only so much they will invest and can do with an India-made lock in any case... For example, if metal obviously needs to be removed, great, Chinese-made Dremel Tool to the rescue, but, there is no such thing as an interchangeable spare part around to be used to replace another... "Sorry - it's Made in India"!

* Their ACTUAL asscociated gunsmith has sent things back to me he sortof understandably couldn't fathom...

the guy at middlesex is complete moron i will never deal with him again.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

the guy at middlesex is complete moron i will never deal with him again.

Speaking with a fellow who sold MVTC muskets, He would go to the actual business location and hand-pick the muskets that he would then bring back and sell. He would never buy them sight-unseen.

As for a lack of parts being interchangeable, that apparently is the case with the original LLP Bess muskets too.

LD

 

[FlinterNick]

Speaking with a fellow who sold MVTC muskets, He would go to the actual business location and hand-pick the muskets that he would then bring back and sell. He would never buy them sight-unseen.

As for a lack of parts being interchangeable, that apparently is the case with the original LLP Bess muskets too.

LD

theres no convincing me, id rather build my own bess with parts from home depot.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Ike, I don't know about there, but here we have a strange phenomenon... People buy the cheapest, least expensive, thing available and then defend it like they are on trial for their life. Maybe their life is on trial which is why they do it... Buy a cheap gun, make up reasons why OTHER than price. It is especially common with $99 Soviet military surplus -- it inevitably (d)evolves into "the best" after it's bought.

I had a sister with a Saturn car (now out of business) -- the cheapest thing around until the Dodge Neon, she defined it as the highest quality hood (bonnet) to fender fit so they bought it. Sure! And India-made are the closest to originals...

One of three reasons India-made guns are purchased is that they are at least 1/2 the price of another option. The second of three reasons is that they are 1/3rd less expensive (until you factor in the tuning and failures) than the better imports.

The Soviet surplus is at least recognized as very safe to shoot, though.

My main issue with the Indians is the longevity of lock parts.

Have heard way too many horror stories of their lock parts wearing out fast due to no or improper hardening of the the various bits, and the importers having no way to get replacements as most parts are handmade with no interchangeability. This often leads to these importers ignoring customers and leaving them with a $700 paperweight.

No thanks.

I have needed parts for a Pedersoli (a screw I buggered, never had one of their lock parts break or wear out) so I emailed Davide and crew in Italy and they sent me out TWO spare screws for FREE all the way from Italy and got to me in about two weeks.

I’m a Pedersoli man. No wishy washy cross your fingers and hope for the best nonsense. Proved and safe guns of high quality. Reliable and dependable, with excellent customer service. More than worth the couple hundred dollar premium for a lifetime quality gun.

I like the American Customs above all, but Pedersoli gets my vote for the best foreign guns by a long shot.

 

[FlinterNick]

I would go to Loyalist, at least you’re dealing with very nice people and they can send additional parts to customize. You also won’t have to worry about never receiving your musket, which Pete is well known for taking money up front and sending you a gun 1-2 years later. He also does’t issue refunds, refunds are simply not allowed.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

I would go to Loyalist, at least you’re dealing with very nice people and they can send additional parts to customize. You also won’t have to worry about never receiving your musket, which Pete is well known for taking money up front and sending you a gun 1-2 years later. He also does’t issue refunds, refunds are simply not allowed.

Just wow.

Makes Track and Dixie look better all the time hmmm?

Can’t say how many bad stories I’ve heard about these Indian importer shysters. Yet another reason to avoid them, as if there couldn’t be enough?

 

[Grenadier1758]

And if Pedersoli made a Long Land Pattern Musket in a close to being correct pattern, I would have spent my money on a Pedersoli Bess rather than one from Loyalist Arms. My Loyalist Arms Musket is serving me well.

 

[FlinterNick]

And if Pedersoli made a Long Land Pattern Musket in a close to being correct pattern, I would have spent my money on a Pedersoli Bess rather than one from Loyalist Arms. My Loyalist Arms Musket is serving me well.

they sorta did in the 1970s with the coach & harness co. Nice musket but stocked in beech.

 

[Grenadier1758]

So did Narragansett Arms make a Long Land Pattern Musket. The problem is finding those on the market.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

theres no convincing me, id rather build my own bess with parts from home depot

Wasn't trying to convince you.....
I'd like to see the Bess made from Home Depot part when you get it done...
I confess I've fashioned nose caps for Bess from brass plumbing parts.

LD

 

[FlinterNick]

Wasn't trying to convince you.....
I'd like to see the Bess made from Home Depot part when you get it done...
I confess I've fashioned nose caps for Bess from brass plumbing parts.

LD

Yea, you can actually do some things with household supplies. I made a rammer tip with a cabinet knob.

 

[FlinterNick]

So did Narragansett Arms make a Long Land Pattern Musket. The problem is finding those on the market.

Sign-up on Proxbid.com and set notifications for a land Brown Bess. I’ve seen 3-5 in the last year on there. Most were in poorer shape.

 

[Musketeer]

theres no convincing me, id rather build my own bess with parts from home depot.

How about Lowe's? Then you could have a Lowe Land Pattern.

 

[FlinterNick]

How about Lowe's? Then you could have a Lowe Land Pattern.

Yup, get a nice slab of poplar, cast iron pipe, few slabs of steel for forging the lock, trigger and breech plug. Some small tubes for rammer, long oak dowel for rod, or steel rods. Plenty of finish choices. Springs would be made from saw blades.

 

[Ike Godsey]

Have heard way too many horror stories of their lock parts wearing out fast due to no or improper hardening of the the various bits,...

Answer me one question on your statement above:
How can anyone judge anything (and may it be a musket) based on hearsay?
Have you ever shoot a india made musket?
Have you ever had your hands on one that you have (maybe) reworked for any reason?
If NOT how can you judge such a musket?


All I can tell you, those muskets - if from a good maker in India - are well worth the price and more than that.
My 1717 French, 1728 French, 1740 Brown Bess as well as my „Ranger Musket“ are „Made in India“ – all of them did not fail on the official Govt proof that is required here – their barrels are made of a VERY good steel and so are the locks.

Do the locks need to be reworked?
YES most of them – but that does mean nothing! I also had to rework the lock of my Pedersoli Bess.
I have reworked the lock on my „ranger musket“. It is a india made lock from a 1717 French musket.
New and longer top jaw screw without a hole, new and larger hammer screw, polished the inside oft he lockplate, as well as all moving parts, reharedened the frizzen and make the frizzen spring „softer“.
I am not that shooter! I shoot maybe 40-50 rounds per year with this little „ranger musket“ – since 2015 I use the very same flint in that lock!
40 shots x 6 years = 240 times that this ONE flint makes my little musket go BOOM!
Can you make this with your Pedersoli too?
Not counting the times when you show your musket to someone else „Please do not let the hammer… KLACK!“ – well you know what I mean…

and the importers having no way to get replacements as most parts are handmade with no interchangeability.

Well, true. But isn’t that the same thing they faced in the 1700s?
The first attempt to have a gun with interchangeable parts was the French 1777 – and surprise – it did not worked out real well.
And NO – the Brown Bess (as used in F&I and AWI) did NOT have interchangeable parts either.

No harms ment.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Answer me one question on your statement above:
How can anyone judge anything (and may it be a musket) based on hearsay?
Have you ever shoot a india made musket?
Have you ever had your hands on one that you have (maybe) reworked for any reason?
If NOT how can you judge such a musket?


All I can tell you, those muskets - if from a good maker in India - are well worth the price and more than that.
My 1717 French, 1728 French, 1740 Brown Bess as well as my „Ranger Musket“ are „Made in India“ – all of them did not fail on the official Govt proof that is required here – their barrels are made of a VERY good steel and so are the locks.

Do the locks need to be reworked?
YES most of them – but that does mean nothing! I also had to rework the lock of my Pedersoli Bess.
I have reworked the lock on my „ranger musket“. It is a india made lock from a 1717 French musket.
New and longer top jaw screw without a hole, new and larger hammer screw, polished the inside oft he lockplate, as well as all moving parts, reharedened the frizzen and make the frizzen spring „softer“.
I am not that shooter! I shoot maybe 40-50 rounds per year with this little „ranger musket“ – since 2015 I use the very same flint in that lock!
40 shots x 6 years = 240 times that this ONE flint makes my little musket go BOOM!
Can you make this with your Pedersoli too?
Not counting the times when you show your musket to someone else „Please do not let the hammer… KLACK!“ – well you know what I mean…

Well, true. But isn’t that the same thing they faced in the 1700s?
The first attempt to have a gun with interchangeable parts was the French 1777 – and surprise – it did not worked out real well.
And NO – the Brown Bess (as used in F&I and AWI) did NOT have interchangeable parts either.

No harms ment.

I lived in Rheinland Pfalz for two years and love Germany and the German people.

I meant no disrespect to you and am sorry if you were offended. Your explanation is sound.

 

[Ike Godsey]

I lived in Rheinland Pfalz for two years and love Germany and the German people.

Well yes, most of them are good people - but we have our black sheeps also - same as you guys (pointing to DC...)

I meant no disrespect to you and am sorry if you were offended.

I am not offended in any way - sorry if my post leaves that impression.
And I am NOT defending Inidia made muskets - my post did not point in that direction.
All I can tell you is what I have learned about those guns while working on them and using them over the years.
We hab the discussion here about the Pedersoli Bess and many of the experts here (which I am definatly NOT!!) have pointed out, the Pedersoli Bess is by all means not OK for either FIW and AWI!

India made muskets offereing you the models you cannot get - at least not in my part of the woods - whitout spending 1000s of $$ on it.