Lyman GPR current production quality ?

[user 36911]

Not exactly but it's not that old.

The recall was serial numbers A595960–A599026 and that was in 2017.

 

[Rod Man]

Not exactly but it's not that old.

The recall was serial numbers A595960–A599026 and that was in 2017.

Thanks,

RM

 

[springfield art]

A Lyman GPR in .54 was my first muzzleloader. Hunted and carried it across Texas, the plaines states andvthe Rockies for over 20 years. Loved that gun. But after buying my first hand made gun I decided to let it go so I could continue to “upgrade.” It was hard to let it go, but I wanted a few guns that were closer to the originals. Still miss it sometimes!

Funny you talk about shortening your GPR…considered that many times.

Lately I have been looking at my Harper’s Ferry 1803 and thinking about cutting it back to an inch or so in front of the middle pipe. It would balance so much better and not really be any less functional. It’s a .54 Zoli with a US made lock. Really like it (and I had a relative on the Corps of Discovery) and it shoots great, but it’s a nose heavy SOB.

Thanks for the comments. Hey, just got new 2022 Dixie catalog, and the Lyman GPR, now made by Pedersoli, doesn't list a Left Hand version! My .54 LH Perc. Lyman Investarms GPR, I got several years ago at Dixon's back when they had a good selection of them. I believe my sale was rung up by Mr. Dixon (senior) himself! I drove up there wanting exactly that specification of the rifle, didn't call ahead to check, but one was sitting there in the rack in the very version I wanted. Happy New Year.

 

[springfield art]

Everybody has the choice to own and shoot any gun they want. Those interested in PC are a minority. I'm certainly not PC about everything or I wouldn't use a ball starter.

However, I will continue to say never about a flintlock half stock Hawken until proven wrong.

I never talked to the Hawken shop about this. They might have some proof. The fact they don't sell a flintlock kit sort of tells me what they'll say.

No one has ever found an original Hawken in flint, according to what I've read. I know some guys make nice custom versions of that, because they want it. They're handsome, either way.

 

[springfield art]

By this same logic, it cannot be proved that Neanderthals did not build half stock, flintlock Hawkens as well.

If an authentic specimen does not exist and no authentic records to that effect exist, then you really have to put it in the "didn't happen" category.

You are correct.

 

[springfield art]

About any Hawken style rifle is toooooo heavy for this old man. If I ever get to hunt again I expect to shoot from some sort of rest. My Austen & Halleck is terrible ... but I love it. I will probably use it and shoot from a rest and that is something I have never done. Age demands some changes and I will, reluctantly, change with my body's demands. The one animal I have never had an opportunity to hunt [that I want] is a wild boar. Maybe this spring I will go for a final hunt. Oklahoma and Texas are both possible easily. So ... choices? Polecat

I've shortened 3 or 4 muzzleloaders for just that reason.

 

[springfield art]

Same as the odds of any of their guns surviving. In the low single digit percentages. None, I will type that again, None, of their early production guns exist.

Yes, and "if" there was a flint, it just never survived. Look at how much is destroyed even today in the floods and fires out West.

 

[springfield art]

About two weeks ago I found a Left hand .54 GPR perc. Investarms 1/60 Ball gun, traded my .50 flint for it. The Serial # A587645, anybody thats really into these rifles have any idea when it was made?

RM

Is there a 'date code' stamp on it? Most Italian arms have a date code, I'm sure many guys will mention this to you. Good luck!

 

[springfield art]

A Lyman GPR in .54 was my first muzzleloader. Hunted and carried it across Texas, the plaines states andvthe Rockies for over 20 years. Loved that gun. But after buying my first hand made gun I decided to let it go so I could continue to “upgrade.” It was hard to let it go, but I wanted a few guns that were closer to the originals. Still miss it sometimes!

Funny you talk about shortening your GPR…considered that many times.

Lately I have been looking at my Harper’s Ferry 1803 and thinking about cutting it back to an inch or so in front of the middle pipe. It would balance so much better and not really be any less functional. It’s a .54 Zoli with a US made lock. Really like it (and I had a relative on the Corps of Discovery) and it shoots great, but it’s a nose heavy SOB.

Few years back, at a gun auction I used to attend, there were TWO 1803's come up in a short period of time. I wasn't "onto" them at the time, but had I bought one, (they were reasonable until the auction became "discovered"), I would definitely shorten the barrel. They are nice guns. Of course I refer to repros.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Well, Muzzle-Loaders did have one LH .50 Gemmer in stock and I just grabbed it. I would have preferred a .54 but i'll be hunting for mule deer mostly and the .50 is perfect.

I still wish they had called the Gemmer a Bridger instead. I would have liked seeing Bridger on the gun.

Ah, but John Gemmer had bought the Hawken Shop and was building the rifles. Bridger was just shooting them.

 

[Rod Man]

Is there a 'date code' stamp on it? Most Italian arms have a date code, I'm sure many guys will mention this to you. Good luck!

Duh,

I forgot about that. I need to look.

Thanks,

RM

 

[user 36911]

Ah, but John Gemmer had bought the Hawken Shop and was building the rifles. Bridger was just shooting them.

I know but the gun Bridger was shooting looked like the GPR/Gemmer. Why not call the shorter brass gun the Gemmer. Actually, none of them should be called the Gemmer. At least Lyman got it right by calling it a plains rifle. They made no attempt to call it a Hawken. It's a poor copy of a Hawken but I can accept plains rifle.

None should be called a Bridger. Lyman or Muzzle-Loader. I'm not sure what gun Investarms had in mind when they developed the GPR/Gemmer? Nice gun but it shouldn't be called a Hawken no more than the TC should. For a production gun there are others much closer like the Pedersoli Rocky Mountain. Green River was right on. As are some kits like Stith.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Marketing is what marketing is.

There were several styles of rifles (and shotguns) produced by the Hawken Brothers, Gemmer and the other owners of the Hawken Shop. The architecture of the rifles throughout the production of all the owners varied from the classic plains rifle / mountain rifle to a scaled back "California Rifle" and a scaled back squirrel rifle with brass hardware and a single tenon that looked very much like the T/C rifle. Local rifle makers including such as Dimmick, Creamer, and several others also made rifles to fill the needs of those using rifles in the west, locally for hunting and target shooting.

I would speculate that Investarms wanted to still be able to sell the rifle that they had the manufacturing process and needed a name that would not infringe on Lyman's rights to the Plains Rifle trademark with a historic name that would generate more interest and relate better to the architecture than a catalog number such as Model 160 and Model 170.
Muzzle Loading Rifles Investarm

 

[user 36911]

The Gemmer/Bridger names come from Muzzle-Loaders not Investarms. Those guns are made exclusively for Muzzle-Loaders.

Most buyers never heard of Gemmer. They have heard of Bridger. It would have been a better name. They should have just put Gemmer on all three of the guns. That would have made more sense. Why call the gun that's nothing like Bridger's gun the Bridger?

Look at the barrel of the Gemmer and on the flat is say Gemmer and than the Oregon address of Muzzle-Loaders. That should have been on all the guns. maybe it is. I've only looked at the Gemmer. It could be that Bridger is only on the website and nowhere on the gun.

One problem is the fish bottom stock. It's more like a Dimmick. LOL....what a mess.

 

[Kabulrocks]

Marketing is what marketing is.

There were several styles of rifles (and shotguns) produced by the Hawken Brothers, Gemmer and the other owners of the Hawken Shop. The architecture of the rifles throughout the production of all the owners varied from the classic plains rifle / mountain rifle to a scaled back "California Rifle" and a scaled back squirrel rifle with brass hardware and a single tenon that looked very much like the T/C rifle. Local rifle makers including such as Dimmick, Creamer, and several others also made rifles to fill the needs of those using rifles in the west, locally for hunting and target shooting.

I would speculate that Investarms wanted to still be able to sell the rifle that they had the manufacturing process and needed a name that would not infringe on Lyman's rights to the Plains Rifle trademark with a historic name that would generate more interest and relate better to the architecture than a catalog number such as Model 160 and Model 170.
Muzzle Loading Rifles Investarm

I think you are spot-on. Here’s a photo of the Hawken in the JM Davis museum, and isn’t what I have in mind for a Hawken.

 

[Kabulrocks]

I think you are spot-on. Here’s a photo of the Hawken in the JM Davis museum, and isn’t what I have in mind for a Hawken.

One more:

 

[Kabulrocks]

I think you are spot-on. Here’s a photo of the Hawken in the JM Davis museum, and isn’t what I have in mind for a Hawken.

In the same case as the Hawken is a rifle made by Dittrich, also in St. Louis. This one, to me, is the general pattern I think of when referring to a Hawken. The lighting and reflection from the glass cases make picture taking difficult:

 

[user 36911]

I think you are spot-on. Here’s a photo of the Hawken in the JM Davis museum, and isn’t what I have in mind for a Hawken.

Well, shut my mouth!! I've been saying all these years that a Hawken didn't have brass furniture. I won't be saying that again.

Plus, look at the trigger guard! I thought those hooks weren't on a Hawken either.

 

[Kabulrocks]

Well, shut my mouth!! I've been saying all these years that a Hawken didn't have brass furniture. I won't be saying that again.

Plus, look at the trigger guard! I thought those hooks weren't on a Hawken either.

Right??? This is NOT what I think of for a Hawken. I’m not a Hawken scholar, but an enthusiast, and this is the only one I’ve seen in this style. Here’s a photo of a photo of the Hawken shop back in the day, 1870-80 per the label:

 

[user 36911]

Yeah, I have all the Hawken books and studied it since 1980. I love the gun but at my age I can't shoulder a true replica anymore.