Lyman GPR or Custom rifle?

[robtattoo]

I'm looking at buying my first 'better quality' muzzleloader. I've had & shot a few CVA/Traditions rifles, but I'm looking to up my game (so to speak)

I'm really wanting a fullstock in .50cal, but a nice Hawken style also appeals to me. I'm wanting it purely for hunting. At the moment I'm 50/50 split between a flinter or percussion but I'm gradually leaning towards flint, purely for it's aesthetic appeal.

I've been looking at the Tennessee rifle offered by TVM & also the Lyman GPR;. I know the Lyman is a cheaper option, but everyone seems to regard them very highly. My question is; Would I really benefeit from dropping close to $1000 on the TVM Tennessee or would I be better served by buying the GPR & saving a few shekels? Would I notice a great difference in quality & if so, where? (fit & finish/shootability/accuracy etc...)

 

[rabjr]

I'm wanting it purely for hunting. At the moment I'm 50/50 split between a flinter or percussion but I'm gradually leaning towards flint, purely for it's aesthetic appeal.

Buy the GPR in flint, listen to folks here who own them and shoot it for a while, see if that turns you on. You can always just keep that gun and have fun with it or sell it, put the money twards a TVM or other custom flint. But I would go with the cheaper flint first to make sure thats what you want.

 

[Tom Compton]

As a working tool the GPR will do anything a custom will do. The difference can be a slightly better quality in barrel and lock.

Workmanship on a custom will define the pride of ownership that you will enjoy (the low extreme is shown in the thread on hear about the rifle for sale being a joke). If you purchase a gun "in the white" you can save some $ and up the pride of ownership.

As others said find a way to shoot many different types to be sure what you want. Flint shooting will require quite a bit of time and frustration so will help if you have someone local to coach and encoourage you but it is a "Fine and Pleasant Misery"

TC

 

[dbutch]

The GRP can be a fine shooting rifle- I bought the GPH thinking I would keep shooting conicals-went with the 54 cal. 1-60 round ball barrel for 117:00 from Midsouth shooters supply -it is accurate!I polished all the bearing surfaces of the lock-removed the metal hooked butt plate and can shoot in comfort in any position. For a first time flint rifle go with the GPR- you can buy lots of powder-lead-flints with the difference.
Flintlocks are FUN challange.
If and when you decide you like flintlocks and still have the itch for a custom you will not lose out on much during resale.
My bet is you'll keep it.

 

[nchawkeye]

Buy custom and go with a swamped barrel and Chambers flintlock...The balance and reliability of a good lock, plus the deep slow twist of a true round ball barrel make them well worth the added cost...

My first muzzleloader was a custom made flintlock back in the 70s...When you buy quality the first time there are so many less problems...My first trip to the range produced a 5 shot ragged hole at 50 yards...

I paid $470 for a custom made Bob Watts flintlock in 1977...I've been offered $3,000 for that gun at a local shoot and wouldn't think of parting with it...

 

[JJB22]

I am in favor of the custom built guns, I know you said you are looking for a hunter only but I think a custom would be there for you in the times you want to target shoot or show the youngins how to shoot the old flintlock rifle. The production guns are nice and most of them are worth every penny you spend on them but a custom rifle is so nice to shoot if they are made for your dimensions. I also like the fact of looking over my rifles and they don't have all of the markings from import or the silly (well, not really) warnings of BLACKPOWDER ONLY on the barrels and such. (a flintlock--you think) My costom rifles are in the 1000 dollars range and they have the small marks and non factory reprodution markings that you might see in those guns.

I love the thought of-- this is my rifle, they're many that look like mine, but there are no others that are exactly like it.

(forgive me for sort of stealing from good ol R.Lee Ermy)

 

[rf50cal]

When I changed from a TC Hawken to a custom flint, my shooting improved and became more enjoyable. Having the right drop and length of pull makes a difference.

I,too, enjoy the fact that I'm not going to run into someone with a rifle just like mine.

For myself , it was worth the extra money,

 

[Trench]

My auto response now is to always go custom if you can, but here's something else to consider. If you're only going to use it for hunting and shoot in only one month or so out of the year, maybe a GPR would make more sense. But then again, we should always buy what we WANT. Capitalism. :thumbsup:

 

[mykeal]

Your question asks us to comment on how you should value your money. All any of us can do is tell you how we value our money...

A custom gun is more of a personal investment than a GPR is. The GPR is more like a tool. If you like finer things (a fine pair of well fitting boots vs a pair of good but common Redheads, or a tailored tweed jacket vs the one off the rack from a box store) then get the custom gun. If you just want it to go to work for you, get the GPR.

I own two GPR's. They are superb guns, accurate, reliable, well balanced, all the good things. A bargain at twice the price. They are not, however, custom made guns. They don't fit perfectly, just very nicely.

I lived in Edinburgh for several years, and had the opportunity to have some tweeds custom tailored for me. Those jackets, and one Edinburgh cape, are without a doubt the finest outer wear on the planet. I'll never regret buying them, and they were very expensive. But I don't wear them to shovel the driveway.

 

[fyrfyter43]

Rob, I don't know if you're set up yet with a shop, but maybe a GPR kit would be a good option for you to get started with a flinter. They can be found on the net for around $350. And with your knife-making skills, it should be an easy project for you to put together.

 

[robtattoo]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Eric! :hatsoff:
I do keep looking at various kits at Track of the Wolf, DGW & TVM but I'm still shopless, tool-less & some may say talentless :grin:

I've never attempted anything like a rifle build before & the thought is both thrilling & terrifying at the same time!
Ideally, I'd like to get something along the lines of a pre-built rifle, but all in the raw so I could simply strip it & finish the steel & wood myself, without having to do any fitting or inletting. Is that a possibility do you suppose? It would be nice to at least have a hand in my own gun, if not one I've totally built.

 

[FishDFly]

Your question asks us to comment on how you should value your money. All any of us can do is tell you how we value our money...

A custom gun is more of a personal investment than a GPR is. The GPR is more like a tool. If you like finer things (a fine pair of well fitting boots vs a pair of good but common Redheads, or a tailored tweed jacket vs the one off the rack from a box store) then get the custom gun. If you just want it to go to work for you, get the GPR.

I own two GPR's. They are superb guns, accurate, reliable, well balanced, all the good things. A bargain at twice the price. They are not, however, custom made guns. They don't fit perfectly, just very nicely.

I lived in Edinburgh for several years, and had the opportunity to have some tweeds custom tailored for me. Those jackets, and one Edinburgh cape, are without a doubt the finest outer wear on the planet. I'll never regret buying them, and they were very expensive. But I don't wear them to shovel the driveway.

mykeal offers the best insight, you would be wise to listen.

RDE

 

[Stumpkiller]

I don't get to spend near as much time hunting as I would like. So to be able to sit on a stump and admire a nice custom rifle laying across my knees as I'm waiting for a deer to stumble by adds a lot to my "quality time" afield. I also know that when the deer appears the rifle will come up fast and the sights in alignment; as the stock was fit to me. The ignition will be fast and the pull crisp as the lock was tuned and the geometry figured out by an expert who spent hours and hours on just that one rifle.

The rest of the year I can look up on the wall and admire the deadly work of art that can kill and represents a grand history. Plus I can relive my own hunting memories every time I shoulder her.

Do less expensive muzzleloaders work about as well? Sure, my $179 New Englander kills them every bit as dead as my custom Lehigh and is every bit as accurate. When it comes to a flintlock, however, a poorly made and fit lock can be a horror. Any CNC machine can kick out a properly functioning percussion lock. The flintlocks have a bit more metalurgy, fit and spring tempering that has to be a bit more involved.

On the other hand . . . until you know what you want or even what to want you might better stick to an "entry level" muzzleloader to develop some feel for a flintlock. Make your mistakes on a practice track, so to speak. Be a shame to order up a custom rifle and then have it be not what you end up wanting from a rifle.

 

[ohio ramrod]

In recent weeks there have been complaints about the fit of some GPR's . As the old saying goes:"They don't make them like they used to". The real question is just how picky are you? No production gun is going to match a well made custom gun in either fit or price. Myself I have several production guns and have made several custom guns and can tell you a good custom gun will cost more than a production gun. (Unless you are talking about some very expensive production guns). But in a custom gun you can get what you want in every detail, if you are willing to pay for it.

 

[rabjr]

He's not even sure if he wants a flint or percussion I can't see spending 1000+ on a gun that he may not like. Thats a lot of money to find out Flintlocks aren't for you because lets face it, they aren't for everybody. I'll be the first one to admit theres nothing like a well built custom gun but one should find out and decide for sure thats what he/she wants.

 

[robtattoo]

one should find out and decide for sure thats what he/she wants.

He. :wink:

I must confess, I've never shot a flinter, however I've shot enough caplocks to know roughly what I'm doing. My attraction to rocklocks is pretty much the same as my passion for traditional bowhunting. I know there are pitfalls, I know it's not as straightforward or as simple as more modern systems & I can accept the quirks & peculiarities of the system. I'm an adaptable guy & I'm 90% sure that a flinter is what I'm looking for. I want the olde worlde feel & experience. I don't want or need this to be easy or simple. I know that I need to do a lot of playing around & getting used to a flinter & to me this is 100% of the fun.
I don't like things that are pre-packed, sanitary, easy & can be done by anyone. In short I want, no, I NEED a challenge. I like adapting to limitations (within reason) & I like finding the best value/quality product I can, whether that's a bargain producton item that performs flawlessly or an expensive custom that looks stunning buthas a few quirks. Either is as appealing to me as the other!
However, as inexperienced as I am, I do need a little guidance, hence the post. I don't want to go & waste a ton of money buying a custom, if the quality of the work is not that much better than that of a better quality production gun. Having only handled & messed with low-end rifles I have no point of comparison. I don't mind paying for a custom gun if the quality warrants the cost, however I was more interested in discovering if the quality of a good production rifle would match up to the quality of a custom. I know that both will kill deer, heck, the last deer I shot fell to a CVA that I picked up for less than $15!

 

[Blackfoot]

"""" So to be able to sit on a stump and admire a nice custom rifle laying across my knees as I'm waiting for a deer to stumble by adds a lot to my "quality time" afield. """""


There it is, says it all for me. Go custom and don't look back.

You say that you like the Hawken but like full stock flinters, well make a nice fullstock flint Hawken ! Thats is what my next muzzleloader will be.

 

[fyrfyter43]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Eric! :hatsoff:
I do keep looking at various kits at Track of the Wolf, DGW & TVM but I'm still shopless, tool-less & some may say talentless :grin:

I've never attempted anything like a rifle build before & the thought is both thrilling & terrifying at the same time!
Ideally, I'd like to get something along the lines of a pre-built rifle, but all in the raw so I could simply strip it & finish the steel & wood myself, without having to do any fitting or inletting. Is that a possibility do you suppose? It would be nice to at least have a hand in my own gun, if not one I've totally built.

Rob, there's a big difference between a kit like a GPR and a kit (parts set is a better description) from suppliers like TOTW.

A GPR kit requires a little sanding, possibly some light inletting, and finishing of the wood and metal. Obviously it can be customized to make a rifle that is "yours".

A kit from TOTW requires far more work. Much of the inletting will need to be done. The cast parts, such as the trigger guard are just rough castings. THe breechplug may or may not be installed, and dovetails will need to be cut for the sights and barrel tenons. The stock will require alot more shaping, as opposed to light sanding for a factory kit such as a GPR.

Someday I would love to build my own rifle. I'll be starting out with a GPR kit for my son. I would have built one for myself, but they don't offer a left-handed kit. I am also planning on building a pistol kit from TVM to learn the skills needed to build a rifle.

 

[tnguy]

theres a very skilled builder named john anderson who lives right there in tullahoma who could build you a fine gun in your price range, and would love the chance to encourage and help you. last time i saw him he had one sweet little 40 he was wanting to sell already finished.

 

[henbrook]

I have a question along the same lines but not exactly?

I'm currently in the process of deciding on what will be my 1st ML purchase?It will be used for hunting first and foremost.I've pretty much decided I want a Hawken,still on the fence over flint or cap but leaning towards a flint?Anyhow,my question is as production rifles go,how much difference is there between a T/C Hawken that retails in Canada for $800 give or take and Hawkens from other big mfrs. that retail for much less and even as little as half that or less in kit form?

I guess my real Q is...Is a T/C that much nicer than a Traditions etc. and worth the extra $$??Aside from fit/finish,overall looks(which I beleive the T/C is superior to most if not all in the production grade?)is there any other appreciable difference,keeping in mind that this will be first and foremost a hunting rifle?