AeroncaTAL
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Thanks Iain, it looks a lot better in real life that what my photos show. Getting excited to finish... :grin:
Scott
Scott
Lyman in white
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GreyWhiskers
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Scott,
Love the star inlay. And I also think that the metal should be finished in American grey-patina. :grin:
Love the star inlay. And I also think that the metal should be finished in American grey-patina. :grin:
AeroncaTAL
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grey whiskers said:
I have it covered! The stock has a deep red in it and the "gray" on the steel is actually coming out a mixture of white and blue. :grin:
Scott
AeroncaTAL
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I'm not really keen on all this HC and PC stuff. If I was putting together, from scratch, a particular rifle then that is the time to be historical and period correct. This rifle is just simulation anyway, it's good enough for me!
I'm with you on that. I like ornamentation too much to be PC with my guns yet. Maybe someday, but for now, I like gaudy Hawkens with lots of shiny brass, and guns with tons of wire inlays, carving and engraving. I think I get my taste from my mom. If you ever saw all the gaudy jewelry she wears, you'd understand. :rotf:
"I'm not really keen on all this HC and PC stuff"
Your gun will rate highly in these areas, one thing to remember before deciding you like or dislike PC/HC is one must have a strong understanding of what HC/PC is, are, means doesn't mean .....in a word research, most anti HC/PC folks I have seen post are against something they really do not have a handle on as of yet, again, nice work on your gun.
Your gun will rate highly in these areas, one thing to remember before deciding you like or dislike PC/HC is one must have a strong understanding of what HC/PC is, are, means doesn't mean .....in a word research, most anti HC/PC folks I have seen post are against something they really do not have a handle on as of yet, again, nice work on your gun.
AeroncaTAL
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I've finished with the rifle and as soon as I get some time (and decent weather) I'll post some pics.
Scott
Scott
AeroncaTAL
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tg said:
I don't want to give the impression that I'm denigrating period and historical correctness. I'm not. It is just that I don't consider it the "end all". If I was into reenacting, maybe I would feel different. But what is Historical Correctness? I read the opinions of some, that the old time builders used scrappers, so that is what you should use. I used sandpaper. Others say that everything was blued. Everything was browned. Everything was left in white. I did what I thought looked good. The stock should be stained with Aquafortis. I used Laural Mountain. Linseed oil should only be used on the wood. Nothing should be used on the wood. You should "boil" your own linseed oil. I used a 50/50 combination of store bought boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits on the stock, hand rubbed. The ramrod though is sealed with Spar Varnish. You kinda see where I'm going with this. It seems to me that there are a lot of opinions out there on historical correctness. And maybe it is that I don't fully understand what it really means. At this point in time I'm not really concerned if someone thinks that my GPR is or is not period or historically correct. I built a modern kit, but I wanted to make it look as close to a historical Hawken as I could for the gun it is, for my own reasons. I'm satisfied with the results.
Scott
rabbit03
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Nice looking rifle no matter how you made it!
I know this has probably been said but what would happen if one of those mountain men from the early 1800's could ride into a (so called) PC camp and view all of the things these folks have. Not that some of it wouldn't be PC but I am sure he would scoff at most of them. Probably call them Flatlanders is my guess.
I am not running down PC either if that is your thing then so be it but when the pot starts calling the kettle black that is where I raise an eyebrow. I think we should all enjoy what we enjoy about shooting blackpowder of any kind. Hell I ain't got nothing against someone who doesn't want to shoot anything but a cannon or a matchlock, who am I?
If someone wants to be anal about you should do this or you can't have that (gime a break) let us all do what we want to do. I am all for someone who regards himself as PC and have no problem with it but since THEY are not 200+ years old they only know what they have been told or read or seen and were not there themselves, which is the why I made this post.
I am sure most folks here, as evidenced by their posts, are glad to see us all doing what we are doing no matter the quality or way we get there. It seems that those who truly love what we are doing always have nice things to say about someones knife or rifle or clothing or whatever they made themselves.
I read some stuff the other day about how the men that lived in the mountains and trapped were mostly clean shaven of facial hair. So does that mean that there weren't some with beards? NO. But if everyone wants to portray a mountain man with a beard then who am I to say that it aint PC! And from what I gathered not all mountain men wore Buckskins either!
Somewhere along the way folks have made up their minds as to what a person did and did not do in all aspects of life, especially when it comes to what they looked like or their gear. That just aint so. I think the romantic things that were written about them and certainly the way Hollywood has told us how they looked has ingrained in our minds that we should all look like this or that or you ain't correct, bologna.
Hell let's all go huntin!
rabbit03
PS I am thinking about getting a buckskin shirt soon (for real)
I know this has probably been said but what would happen if one of those mountain men from the early 1800's could ride into a (so called) PC camp and view all of the things these folks have. Not that some of it wouldn't be PC but I am sure he would scoff at most of them. Probably call them Flatlanders is my guess.
I am not running down PC either if that is your thing then so be it but when the pot starts calling the kettle black that is where I raise an eyebrow. I think we should all enjoy what we enjoy about shooting blackpowder of any kind. Hell I ain't got nothing against someone who doesn't want to shoot anything but a cannon or a matchlock, who am I?
If someone wants to be anal about you should do this or you can't have that (gime a break) let us all do what we want to do. I am all for someone who regards himself as PC and have no problem with it but since THEY are not 200+ years old they only know what they have been told or read or seen and were not there themselves, which is the why I made this post.
I am sure most folks here, as evidenced by their posts, are glad to see us all doing what we are doing no matter the quality or way we get there. It seems that those who truly love what we are doing always have nice things to say about someones knife or rifle or clothing or whatever they made themselves.
I read some stuff the other day about how the men that lived in the mountains and trapped were mostly clean shaven of facial hair. So does that mean that there weren't some with beards? NO. But if everyone wants to portray a mountain man with a beard then who am I to say that it aint PC! And from what I gathered not all mountain men wore Buckskins either!
Somewhere along the way folks have made up their minds as to what a person did and did not do in all aspects of life, especially when it comes to what they looked like or their gear. That just aint so. I think the romantic things that were written about them and certainly the way Hollywood has told us how they looked has ingrained in our minds that we should all look like this or that or you ain't correct, bologna.
Hell let's all go huntin!
rabbit03
PS I am thinking about getting a buckskin shirt soon (for real)
AeroncaTAL
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Amen Brother!
". I used a 50/50 combination of store bought boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits on the stock, hand rubbed"
Try a little of the spar varnish in the linseed oil/mineral spirits as a stock finish sometime you may like it...there are always differences in what folks consider PC or not as to their level of resesarch or level of interest, it is also an ongoing learning experience with extremests at both ends, after a while you can usually sort the wheat from the chaff when PC advise starts flying about, the interenet has become a rapid fire platform for a vast and active number of one book wonders on many topics. Enjoy the new gun.
Try a little of the spar varnish in the linseed oil/mineral spirits as a stock finish sometime you may like it...there are always differences in what folks consider PC or not as to their level of resesarch or level of interest, it is also an ongoing learning experience with extremests at both ends, after a while you can usually sort the wheat from the chaff when PC advise starts flying about, the interenet has become a rapid fire platform for a vast and active number of one book wonders on many topics. Enjoy the new gun.
54mountain
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As far as P/C goes who's to say whats P/C some people out there think if a gun is not patterned off one of the few serviving guns from well known builders it's not P/C. what about the guns that were built by the indavidual from spare and used parts who couldn't afford a store bought gun, I have a .54 my brother built years ago that is loosly based on a mountain rifle, 28" barrel full stock alll pinned iron furniture. It is very plain with no buttplate just an iron toeplate and an antler heel plate. I consider this rifle very P/c just for it's simplicity.
rabbit03
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Amen to that!
The rifles that survived are just that the survivors, what about all the others that we will never know about. And what of the way they were built??? And that can be said of everything pertaining to the period that we try to emulate (SP). What about the clothing the way they wore their hair the dishes they ate from, all of these things that we think are PC are just a small window of the total picture.
I have seen folks with horn spoons and such and no doubt that happend but what of all the things they brought with them in the new world and subsequently into the fronteer like forks and spoons and ladles and such. Certainly the folks then used these things and only resorted to things like horn spoons out of necessity. I have heard buckskin clothes were also a thing of necessity and people probably preferred a good wool coat over a buckskin one.
And personlly I think it is great to see these things on display but also think that if someone isn't reading the same book (so to speak) that it does not mean they are wrong! I think we would all be surprised at how proper lots of them actually were and only resorted to some of the things they did (or we see from sketches) out of necessity. After all what is more glamorous to write about, a coon skin hat or some flatlanders woolen hat, or a spoon whittled out of horn or just a plain old spoon from back home. Makes common sense to me when I think about how it must have been. I would have much preferred to have my old wool coat and spoon from home etc. Not nearly as romantic or interesting a tale but a little warmer and more practical!
So what is PC to some may actually be from, like someone above said, (from just one book) or school of thought.
Amen
rabbit03
ps Besides anyone who ain't shooting a Hawken rifle is wrong anyway. :blah:
The rifles that survived are just that the survivors, what about all the others that we will never know about. And what of the way they were built??? And that can be said of everything pertaining to the period that we try to emulate (SP). What about the clothing the way they wore their hair the dishes they ate from, all of these things that we think are PC are just a small window of the total picture.
I have seen folks with horn spoons and such and no doubt that happend but what of all the things they brought with them in the new world and subsequently into the fronteer like forks and spoons and ladles and such. Certainly the folks then used these things and only resorted to things like horn spoons out of necessity. I have heard buckskin clothes were also a thing of necessity and people probably preferred a good wool coat over a buckskin one.
And personlly I think it is great to see these things on display but also think that if someone isn't reading the same book (so to speak) that it does not mean they are wrong! I think we would all be surprised at how proper lots of them actually were and only resorted to some of the things they did (or we see from sketches) out of necessity. After all what is more glamorous to write about, a coon skin hat or some flatlanders woolen hat, or a spoon whittled out of horn or just a plain old spoon from back home. Makes common sense to me when I think about how it must have been. I would have much preferred to have my old wool coat and spoon from home etc. Not nearly as romantic or interesting a tale but a little warmer and more practical!
So what is PC to some may actually be from, like someone above said, (from just one book) or school of thought.
Amen
rabbit03
ps Besides anyone who ain't shooting a Hawken rifle is wrong anyway. :blah:
Rabbit, well said. I always figure it this way. I don't even fit in my own time. If I lived back then, I doubt I'd fit in either. Just because something wasn't "commonly used" doesn't mean it wasn't used at all.
For example, maybe I would have been a wealthy merchant type who would put a 3 foot long brass scope on my gun, even though I'd be the only one withing 500 miles with one.
Perhaps a wealthy city gentleman got the wonderlust and decided to become a trapper, so he takes his fine, imported, elaborately embellished english sporting rifle and heads west, through the hordes of Hawkens.
Maybe, being the one who doesn't follow what is commonly done, I'd be the one casting conicals, even though they weren't commonly used.
Not being much of a history buff, I don't even apply that much thought to my guns. I love muzzleloading. Not any particular place, period, or style. If a gun appeals to me because of aesthetics, fit, accuracy, or whatever, then it's the gun for me. I use Ballistol on my guns and it was invented way after centerfires took over.
I certainly don't knock the reenactors and history lovers. I think it's great that they have such an interest in the historical accuracy aspect. I love to learn from them, to try and help keep the old skills alive, and to just daydream of what it would have been like back then. Then I go grab my Investarms pseudo "Hawken" and go have my own kind of fun!
For example, maybe I would have been a wealthy merchant type who would put a 3 foot long brass scope on my gun, even though I'd be the only one withing 500 miles with one.
Perhaps a wealthy city gentleman got the wonderlust and decided to become a trapper, so he takes his fine, imported, elaborately embellished english sporting rifle and heads west, through the hordes of Hawkens.
Maybe, being the one who doesn't follow what is commonly done, I'd be the one casting conicals, even though they weren't commonly used.
Not being much of a history buff, I don't even apply that much thought to my guns. I love muzzleloading. Not any particular place, period, or style. If a gun appeals to me because of aesthetics, fit, accuracy, or whatever, then it's the gun for me. I use Ballistol on my guns and it was invented way after centerfires took over.
I certainly don't knock the reenactors and history lovers. I think it's great that they have such an interest in the historical accuracy aspect. I love to learn from them, to try and help keep the old skills alive, and to just daydream of what it would have been like back then. Then I go grab my Investarms pseudo "Hawken" and go have my own kind of fun!
What if, there could have been, you can't prove there wasn't or was. I think this is the wrong place to even try to discuss the basics of research and how we come to use that which we know to set some sort of standards that the majority accept as PC/HC....enjoy whatever you find that suits your wants and needs gentlemen.
AeroncaTAL
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I might do that. Since there are so many different ways to come to the same result (a shootn' iron), you know what this means? I'm gonna have to build a slug of 'em! :hmm:tg said:
Scott
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Plink said:
Same here Plink. I was attracted to the Hawken, so that style is what I chose to build first. I think flinters are interesting, so my next long gun will be one of those.
Ditto! I was at a Heritage Fair today, and it was facinating looking at all the period "stuff" you could pick up. Candles, cookware, fire starters, bottles, clothing, soap, bags, muzzleloader supplies, etc. Pretty much all hand made.
Scott
BTW Plink, made any progress on your project yet?
Guest
Very nice looking work...well done
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