Mainspring Vise

[jackley]

If I'm just going on a day hunt close to home I don't take a vice with me. But if I'm going for a extended hunt. I take a vice and springs with me. I have never had to use them and hopefully will never have to. And it is the cheap one.

Jerry

 

[M. De Land]

I am looking for a mainspring vise to carry afeild.
I don't see that you would be using it all that often out in the bush but if you needed it you would be sorry you left it behind.
I have not bought one yet and don't know much about what makes one PC/HC.
Just going by what I pull up online, its mainly TOW that carries them and they're sold out of the basic version.
The "deluxe" is double the price, is it worth that?
Do they vary much in size for rifle to smoothbore/ musket?
Are they just generic?
Is there another vendor(s) that carry them ?

The Sicilian

All I have ever used and still use today is a small pair of narrow jaw vice grips and leather patch. They are not lock specific and will work without spring harm on any kind. They also have lots of other uses on a field trip.

 

[Pete44ru]

I used an inexpensive small C-clamp on the back action locks of a SxS shotgun.

.

 

[Sidney Smith]

All I have ever used and still use today is a small pair of narrow jaw vice grips and leather patch. They are not lock specific and will work without spring harm on any kind. They also have lots of other uses on a field trip.

Vice grips will work, however 1. the jaws can mar the spring, and 2. it is very hard to slowly release spring tension without the spring shooting across the room. I had this happen on my L&R lock when I disassembled it. At the time I didn't have a spring vice so used what I had. I spent the money and bought one. I don't know if mine is the delux or not, but it does have the pivoting arm that allows it to fit the long main spring easily. IIRC Muzzle Loader builder's supply sells them. For something like $25 its well worth it to have one in your tool box.

 

[M. De Land]

The leather mentioned is just as important af the vice grips to avoid the trouble you described. You won't scratch or loose the spring with a bit of careful work. The trouble with a spring vise is they are not universal as the narrow jawed small vice grip is and arn't any good for a number of other chores encountered on field trips.

 

[Zonie]

The problem with using Vise Grips or other similar pliers is they only make a very localized contact with the mainspring.

That's fine when were talking about the upper area of the spring but in almost every case, the lower area of the spring is very long and it extends much further out to the tumbler spur or stirrup that connects to the tumbler.
In order to get that part of the spring to relax its pressure at the tumbler the spring must flexed by the pliers much further than it is designed to flex. That often will result in a broken spring.

These mainspring vises are made to put the pressure where it belongs. That's why they are worth buying if anyone is planning on taking their lock apart.

 

[WRustyLane]

When I had to replace the tumbler in my Pedersoli 50 cal. flintlock, I sent off and got a mainspring vise to use. When it wouldn't fit the mainspring I ended up ruining the vise and resorted to using the vise grips. Much to my surprise it worked quite well and I didn't break the fragile mainspring. Now I never want to resort to taking apart another Pedersoli lock, so if it ever again fails me, I will save my $$ and purchase an L&R lock made to replace that danged Pedersoli lock. Of course I ordered the mainspring vise from flea bay and the metal was probably not made to superlative standards.

 

[E. B. Leland]

In the spirit of sharing acquired knowledge, I have used all the various tools discussed with both success and failure. My advice is to use a vice, and don’t even screw around with anything else, but just go to Larry Callahan and get one of his well made, well designed tools.
http://www.bagmolds.com/

 

[M. De Land]

The problem with using Vise Grips or other similar pliers is they only make a very localized contact with the mainspring.

That's fine when were talking about the upper area of the spring but in almost every case, the lower area of the spring is very long and it extends much further out to the tumbler spur or stirrup that connects to the tumbler.
In order to get that part of the spring to relax its pressure at the tumbler the spring must flexed by the pliers much further than it is designed to flex. That often will result in a broken spring.

These mainspring vises are made to put the pressure where it belongs. That's why they are worth buying if anyone is planning on taking their lock apart.

Well the theory is correct but in practice a properly used and padded vice grip won't break or over stress a V spring. I've yet to ever break a V spring using leather padded vice grips and I've made, heat treated and installed a good many of all types of flat and V springs over the last 40 years.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Spend the $15.00 and get the standard mainspring vise. You can do lots of things the 'wrong' way and get by......for a while. BTW, except for some early El Cheapo Spanish made locks, I have never had a mainspring break. Can happen but is rare with modern steels.

 

[M. De Land]

Spend the $15.00 and get the standard mainspring vise. You can do lots of things the 'wrong' way and get by......for a while. BTW, except for some early El Cheapo Spanish made locks, I have never had a mainspring break. Can happen but is rare with modern steels.

If you take the time to carefully look at a spring vice it stresses the turn back V (which is the high stress point and where they usually break) at least as much or more than does a pair of leather padded vice grip jaws positioned in the same place. The only difference is the bottom lever of the vice contacts the lower leaf of the spring in two places and swivels to accommodate the lever angle movement. The contact of the upper leaf against the vice anvil (which by the way is not padded generally) is in the same spot as the vice grip jaw. I would argue that the closer contact point of the vice lever to the spring turn back, actually puts as much or more stress in the V than does the mid lever( farther out) contact of the vice grip jaw. The single contact point of the lower vice grip jaw is mid length or farther out on the lower leaf of the spring and will pivot to accommodate the lower leaf arc movement as well.
The one advantage that I do see in the vice use is the two point lower purchase has more friction to keep the spring from moving in the vice as the spring is compressed. A bit of rosin powder on the leather pad will do the same in the vice grip jaws.
The notion that use of a padded,narrow vice grip jaw, properly positioned and operated , to install a flat or V spring is some how improper, is patently false.

 

[running horse]

Are you reenacting with a group? If so follow there rules, if you're doing it by yourself or there aren't any rules but you want to be as close to correct as possible do some research on who you are and make the best educated decision you can. If you're out just to have fun or a good experience, leave in in the shooting box and enjoy your time, the likelihood of needing it may be slim but it comes down to why you have it or want it.

 

[spudnut]

I am looking for a mainspring vise to carry afeild.
I don't see that you would be using it all that often out in the bush but if you needed it you would be sorry you left it behind.
I have not bought one yet and don't know much about what makes one PC/HC.
Just going by what I pull up online, its mainly TOW that carries them and they're sold out of the basic version.
The "deluxe" is double the price, is it worth that?
Do they vary much in size for rifle to smoothbore/ musket?
Are they just generic?
Is there another vendor(s) that carry them ?

The Sicilian

Ive used them in a pinch as a handle on a stuck rammer,

 

[Sicilian Hunter]

Ive used them in a pinch as a handle on a stuck rammer,

Spud,
That's a great tip!
I did actually use it at the last rendezvous I was at albeit in camp.
I should hope I will never expect use it one the spot while hunting or competing but it came in VERY handy when a gun builder friend gave me instruction on how to service my sear spring although the vise wasn't used for that particular part.
I was glad I had it then

 

[Rifleman1776]

M. De, I just can't wrap my mind around ye logic. The standard mainspring vise distributes the force to compress over the length of the spring and gives control on the amount of compression. A 'V' type mainspring usually does not require much compression to remove. Another advantage is the spring can stay in the vise until time to reinstall. I have never used one of the 'beer can opener' style vises so cannot comment. But, this is a "do yer own thang" game. Carry on with whatever works for ye.

 

[Sicilian Hunter]

Are you reenacting with a group? If so follow there rules, if you're doing it by yourself or there aren't any rules but you want to be as close to correct as possible do some research on who you are and make the best educated decision you can. If you're out just to have fun or a good experience, leave in in the shooting box and enjoy your time, the likelihood of needing it may be slim but it comes down to why you have it or want it.

Horse,
I can only assume that you meant reenacting with a military group of which I am not.
The BP club I belong to doesn't have any hard and fast rules about something like this.
Many here have stated that it adds extra weight to the shooting bag but when I finally held mine in my hand I had to laugh about the "weight".
You'd have to be weak as a kitten to notice the difference.
To me it's as Jerry said, if I was going to be out long enough for mechanical failures to be a concern it'll go in the shooting pouch along with whatever parts I think I might need.
Weight isn't an issue for me

 

[M. De Land]

M. De, I just can't wrap my mind around ye logic. The standard mainspring vise distributes the force to compress over the length of the spring and gives control on the amount of compression. A 'V' type mainspring usually does not require much compression to remove. Another advantage is the spring can stay in the vise until time to reinstall. I have never used one of the 'beer can opener' style vises so cannot comment. But, this is a "do yer own thang" game. Carry on with whatever works for ye.

It's really quite simple, the lower arm of a vice supports (more or less) the entire length of the lower spring leaf on it's curve so when the spring is compressed the turn back has to flex more than when a padded vice grip jaw, making lower leaf contact farther away from the turn back. The actual turn back is flexed less with the single point vice grip purchase because it is farther away and more of the lower leaf is left unsupported to flex so not as much of the movement is in the turn back.

 

[running horse]

Horse,
I can only assume that you meant reenacting with a military group of which I am not.
The BP club I belong to doesn't have any hard and fast rules about something like this.
Many here have stated that it adds extra weight to the shooting bag but when I finally held mine in my hand I had to laugh about the "weight".
You'd have to be weak as a kitten to notice the difference.
To me it's as Jerry said, if I was going to be out long enough for mechanical failures to be a concern it'll go in the shooting pouch along with whatever parts I think I might need.
Weight isn't an issue for me

Yes I was referring to an organized military group as they may have a rule one way or another. If you're out on a hunt for a week or two and it's a long walk back to the truck I would definitely suggest carrying one weight shouldn't be an issue but if your close to the truck or back to it a couple times a day and it's not something that fits into a specific type of experience you are wanting to have ( hopefully not a broken spring) then leaving it in a box with the truck will keep one more thing out of your bag and it's easier to keep track of small parts and have a bench to work at. Along with it where magnets available and common? It may be beneficial to keep a small one to stick small parts to just to keep them from wondering off.

 

[Sicilian Hunter]

Yes I was referring to an organized military group as they may have a rule one way or another. If you're out on a hunt for a week or two and it's a long walk back to the truck I would definitely suggest carrying one weight shouldn't be an issue but if your close to the truck or back to it a couple times a day and it's not something that fits into a specific type of experience you are wanting to have ( hopefully not a broken spring) then leaving it in a box with the truck will keep one more thing out of your bag and it's easier to keep track of small parts and have a bench to work at. Along with it where magnets available and common? It may be beneficial to keep a small one to stick small parts to just to keep them from wondering off.

Horse,
I like that magnet idea but I am not sure of your phrasing.
Were magnets period?
I know the Norse used lode stones but I'm not sure that tech made it over to the colonies.
Never thought to check, honestly...

 

[running horse]

Yes it was just a thought as I was typing it out.