Also looking to make my own mocs. Saw a how to where the guy made a double soled pair with carpet padding glued in between. After wearing Brogans and German mountain boots much of my reenacting career my feet would appreciate the extra cushioning. Any advice as to who has the least expensive, proper leather? (yeah, I'm cheap, I'm on a seriously restricted budget).
Making Moccasins
- Thread starter Ringel05
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There are patterns & instructions available on the internet to make various styles of mocassins, Ringel. Maybe one of the other guys will reply and attach a link. The leather you should use is elk hide, because it's thick enough (as opposed to deerskin)and supple enough to work with. I've made one pair, and I'll tell ya, they are UGLY. My elderly mother even commented that "those things are tacky-looking...I wouldn't wear 'em to a dogfight". Your idea of putting padding inside is a good one, and it works, because I did it with some thick pieces of felt, if you can find it. Try a military surplus store. I'm resigned to the fact that I'm going to have to make a number of pairs and improve each one. I talked to a guy at the Kalamazoo Show who said he had made a total of 4 pair, and he was satisfied with the last ones.
Doc Arroyo
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I usually make mine with a double sole, and size them for a set of hiking boot insoles.
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You should know, however, that even with a double sole and padding, they will still be a "a decent way of going barefoot". Especially if the underside of your feet are tender or if you have any plantar fasciitis, you may find they are not for you.
Also I have found that if the mocs have any "play" in their fit, they cause blisters, so I go with a well fitted pair against my feet, and if need be add a second, outer pair.
When I sewed them, as they were veg tanned, I wore them in the damp grass, and let them stretch, then I took up the slack by redoing the heal seam. This worked very well.
LD
Also I have found that if the mocs have any "play" in their fit, they cause blisters, so I go with a well fitted pair against my feet, and if need be add a second, outer pair.
When I sewed them, as they were veg tanned, I wore them in the damp grass, and let them stretch, then I took up the slack by redoing the heal seam. This worked very well.
LD
I have found that even thin, soft soled mocs give protection for the feet on rough ground. I really like soft mocs. I wore out one pair and my tall mocs are borderline wearing out. I strongly dislike my Dyers. Very uncomfortable. Biggest problem I have with mocs is since most ronnys are in the spring the ground in our part of the country is always cold and wet. Feet get soaked and cold. Intolerable for older folks feet.
There's a lot of different styles- what time frame and area?
About moccasins. We all need to fess up and take some honesty pills. Moccasins can wear out real fast and leather is expensive and most of us have limited time, so.......we want long lasting moccasins, pretty soon we really aren't PC. The going barefoot notion is the sad reality. I use some oak tan leather- rough side out- for soles on several different styles and live with it. Most of us know about the various patterns but then you read some diary from the time- "ran out of food so we boiled our supply of moccasin soles" or "the soles were so thin that the cactus needles came right through. What soles? The whole lower piece? What about one piece side seams- what is the sole? I'm confused on that one and don't have an answer.
We generally like everything to be documented but what do we do? We don't want footwear that wears out in a day or two so we sew on to a regular moccasin a thick hunk of leather for a longer lasting sole- was that done back during the time? There were shoes in existence so obviously shoe leather was an available material.
About moccasins. We all need to fess up and take some honesty pills. Moccasins can wear out real fast and leather is expensive and most of us have limited time, so.......we want long lasting moccasins, pretty soon we really aren't PC. The going barefoot notion is the sad reality. I use some oak tan leather- rough side out- for soles on several different styles and live with it. Most of us know about the various patterns but then you read some diary from the time- "ran out of food so we boiled our supply of moccasin soles" or "the soles were so thin that the cactus needles came right through. What soles? The whole lower piece? What about one piece side seams- what is the sole? I'm confused on that one and don't have an answer.
We generally like everything to be documented but what do we do? We don't want footwear that wears out in a day or two so we sew on to a regular moccasin a thick hunk of leather for a longer lasting sole- was that done back during the time? There were shoes in existence so obviously shoe leather was an available material.
Black Hand
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crockett said:
The sole happens to be whatever part is on the bottom of the moccasin (between your foot and the ground).
I have gone exclusively to soft-soles. Why?
My personal experience has suggested that the harder leather, when used as a sole, actually wears out faster than a soft leather and is also far more slick. The leather that seems to wear the best for soles is moose or bison. It doesn't even need to be that thick....
Rod Lassey
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I know it can be initially expensive, but I've found that braintan makes the best moccs. I prefer leather that isn't worked really soft--the garment type braintan is too flimsy. Mule deer that's not scraped too thin, and worked so that it has some 'body' to it works very well. I've found that the right braintan will long outlast most commercial tan (in a traditional style mocc--not Dyers, Arrow, or their ilk), and are NOT slippery. In fact, they're actually pretty grippy.
Bark tan might be an option, too, although that may be slicker on grass and rocks.
I both make and buy braintan, depending on what I have on hand and what I need. Braintan can either be expensive (buying it) or free (making it). For me, it's not too tough to make, it's just finding the time to do so. I've also lucked into some--I was able to buy a braintanned moose hide this winter at a local gunshow for a fraction of what it would regularly be. Gonna have moccs for some time to come with that one. :grin:
Rod
Bark tan might be an option, too, although that may be slicker on grass and rocks.
I both make and buy braintan, depending on what I have on hand and what I need. Braintan can either be expensive (buying it) or free (making it). For me, it's not too tough to make, it's just finding the time to do so. I've also lucked into some--I was able to buy a braintanned moose hide this winter at a local gunshow for a fraction of what it would regularly be. Gonna have moccs for some time to come with that one. :grin:
Rod
Rod Lassey
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I realize in my post that I didn't answer the original question. Personally, I'd stay away from sandwiching something between a couple of layers of leather---when (not if!) they get wet, they'll be harder to dry out. I'm thinking the cushion would soak up, and since it's between layers of leather, would take forever to dry.
A friend of mine has foot problems, he wears an insole sort of thing in his moccs---I'd never have guessed it if he hadn't told me. Maybe that's an option?
Rod
A friend of mine has foot problems, he wears an insole sort of thing in his moccs---I'd never have guessed it if he hadn't told me. Maybe that's an option?
Rod
When I make mocs for others, I have them pick up a pair of the insoles from Sholes at Walmart. Then, when patterning their feet, I have them stand on the insoles. If you want a moc with a heavier sole, make Navaho, or Apache style and use thick rawhide for the sole. You will have to case (dampen) the rawhide before sewing, and if using veg tan for the uppers casing will again make sewing easier.
One of the best books for mocs is the Craft Manual of the North American Indian footwear. It is not a fancy book, nor expensive, but it cover a wide range of of NA footwear, and give good instruction on how to pattern.
Woody
One of the best books for mocs is the Craft Manual of the North American Indian footwear. It is not a fancy book, nor expensive, but it cover a wide range of of NA footwear, and give good instruction on how to pattern.
Woody
There's the BATA shoe museum in Canada and they have (had?) on line photos of a lot of moccasins. There is a magazine Whispering Winds that has a lot of moccasin information. They had a 1820 Eastern Cree style with a puckered toe, large vamp.
As an alternative to expensive brain tan the German Tan from Crazy Crow (the smoked in particular) makes excellent mocs that last better than most hides - it is Euro red deer hides that are similar in weight to Elk and the tanning method is a PC one to boot.
The best bang for the buck in German Tan is the seconds which are cheaper and they have a section of quite thick neck that makes excellent add on soles and yes adding on outer soles is well documented both east and west. Since I don't go barefoot to toughen up my feet as much anymore I do a triple sole with the GT - the regular and outer soles are sewn together and I make a third inner soles that can be replaced. An advantage of the sewn on outer sole is it can be easily replaced adding to the length of live of the uppers..
The best bang for the buck in German Tan is the seconds which are cheaper and they have a section of quite thick neck that makes excellent add on soles and yes adding on outer soles is well documented both east and west. Since I don't go barefoot to toughen up my feet as much anymore I do a triple sole with the GT - the regular and outer soles are sewn together and I make a third inner soles that can be replaced. An advantage of the sewn on outer sole is it can be easily replaced adding to the length of live of the uppers..
Chuck- is that the proper terminolgy? "add on soles". Makes sense since I never really knew what to call them. I have one tidbit where some mountain men found a track where the imprint showed a moccasin with a patched hole- only one I ever found concerning just a patch- everything referred to "soles".
I like center seam/vamp type moccasins but I guess I'm in the minority, most guys like side seams. I have both and the side seams are fast and easy to make. The center seam/vamp- you almost have to modify to fit your own feet or you end up with "elf shoes". How was the add on sole done? Just sewn on the bottom? Was it usually leather or was it rawhide? If leather, a heavier weight than the rest of the moccasin or about the same.
And.....I always have trouble sewing on soles because you have to stick your fingers up inside the toe area of the moccasin and sew that way. I could use a stitching awl- the kind that makes the little loops but I'm sure that is not PC. Do you know how the soles were sewn on? If I'm going to do it, I might as well do it right. I am thinking the thread was sinew.
I like center seam/vamp type moccasins but I guess I'm in the minority, most guys like side seams. I have both and the side seams are fast and easy to make. The center seam/vamp- you almost have to modify to fit your own feet or you end up with "elf shoes". How was the add on sole done? Just sewn on the bottom? Was it usually leather or was it rawhide? If leather, a heavier weight than the rest of the moccasin or about the same.
And.....I always have trouble sewing on soles because you have to stick your fingers up inside the toe area of the moccasin and sew that way. I could use a stitching awl- the kind that makes the little loops but I'm sure that is not PC. Do you know how the soles were sewn on? If I'm going to do it, I might as well do it right. I am thinking the thread was sinew.
rafterob
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If you can still find a shoe repairman you can take your mocs there and have the soles sewn on. You want to glue them also. Not sure when tacks showed up, but probably pretty early on. You can tack on the soles using shoe tacks, also glue. The tacks are really thin on the point so when you hammer them against a mandrel they turn back into the leather. When using a thick sole they typically go from the top down.Back in the '70s, the goodwill stores used to do shoe repair and we would take sandals there to have them sewn together.
Black Hand
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Use a whip-stitch that catches the moccasin and sole in one go (from the outside). No need to reach into the moccasin. It helps if the sole is tacked onto the moccasin in a few spots before you start sewing to keep it from shifting as you sew.crockett said:
tankerzuke
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Go to crazy crow and order the video how to make plains hardsole mocs! I did and just finished my first pair which is made with latigo soles and I used buffalo for the hide and they are great! Form fitting too! Good luck
Zuke
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1. Sew the soles to the bottoms before you assemble the moccasin. 2. Take the moccasin apart, sew on the soles, reassemble. It doesn't take any time to put a moccasin back together as the holes are already punched. You would be surprised at how quick they go back together.
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