Max powder load in Pedersoli 12ga sxs

[RayJ]

On the side of my Pedersoli 12ga it says 89gr max load.Would it hurt to go up too 100gr or more of powder and 1 and 1/2 oz or more of shot.I have been shooting itx shot which is almost as heavy as lead but it is very expensive.153.00 for 7lbs.I have a lot of #2 steel shot but I hear that it is too light for ducks from a ML.I was thinking that upping the powder and shot charge will give me more punch as well as more pellets since they are #2's making it possibly ok for ducks.Is it dangerous to shoot over 89 gr from my gun and will #2 steel be a good load for ducks from my gun?ITX works great but it is extremely expensive and If I shoot a lot,that could run into big money.So,any opinions or advice is welcome.I've already asked some questions about prb and buckshot,now I'm looking at duck loads.

 

[Lonegun1894]

If you shoot steel, or any other similar material, you have to be sure you use a shotcup of some form to make sure you protect the bore from the shot. Steel shot will wear grooves in your bore, and I've been told most other types, (with the exception of lead, ITX, and a very few others), will do the same. So be careful. There have been discussions of different home made shotcups here, made from paper, and cloth, and a few other items, but I haven't experimented with any other than cloth. The cloth worked ok, but not sure if it's safe with steel. All my experiments have been with lead, as I don't hunt waterfowl so haven't had to worry about non-toxic shot--at least not yet.

 

[Patocazador]

I would think ~90 grains would be more than adequate for a shot load. I haven't used over 80 gr. of 2F in mine and it seems my groups are better with 75 gr.

 

[RayJ]

I know groups are very important but I was just thinking that since steel was so lightweight,more powder might be needed to increase speed from the barrel.i've read some people say that they won't hunt with sfeel for ducks because a ML lacks the speed to knock ducks down with clean kills. Is this true and if so,is there any way to make steel work for ducks?

 

[azmntman]

I've shot ducks (over decoys) at 35 yds with steel and had no problems with 80 grains. Patterns (not groups? in shotguns) are more important and reasonable ranges IMO

 

[Wes/Tex]

If memory serves, the max recommended is 90 grains FFg and 1&1/4 oz. shot. I've taken it another 10 grains of FFg & Fg. The latter worked fairly well, the former blew the pattern pretty badly. Sure, you can increase the shot charge but like you said, you're dealing with fairly thin steel. The gun may take it but it gets pretty miserable being the loose nut behind the butt plate! A double 10 might help if your goal is putting as much shot in the sky as possible, but they still can be pretty uncomfortable if you're playing ack-ack gun!

 

[Richard McCullough]

I shoot 85 grains 2F Goex and a 1 1/4oz of #4 ITX, ducks, Canada Geese fall to this load. There is a Tundra Swan mounted on my wall, that was taken with the same shot load, only difference was the powder charge was 60 grains of Triple 7. You don't need higher than this.

 

[Britsmoothy]

You won't get more speed worth a hoot...go for pattern saturation instead.
B.

 

[RayJ]

Thanks all.The conseus seems to be to stick with lighter loads and concentrate on patterns.I'll do that.I was just wanting to see if I could get steel to work for ducks.I have a good combo with itx that drops ducks dead but steel is cheap and just wanted to try it.I may still try it out but #2's don't have baby pellets in a load so the patterns may be to thin to be effective.

 

[Lorne Johnson]

Thanks all.The conseus seems to be to stick with lighter loads and concentrate on patterns.I'll do that.I was just wanting to see if I could get steel to work for ducks.I have a good combo with itx that drops ducks dead but steel is cheap and just wanted to try it.I may still try it out but #2's don't have baby pellets in a load so the patterns may be to thin to be effective.

What you have here is the conventional wisdom. Even in modern cartridge guns it's difficult to get steel up to an energy level that is really reliable on ducks. In the camber smokeless powder has a flame front that is supersonic. Even though it is an explosive, Black Powder's flame front in always subsonic. This seems to mean that in larger charges the payload has moved enough to makes the expansion of gases in the latter part of the burn less effective because it takes place in a larger volume between the breach and the payload. Or to put it another way, "you won't get more speed worth a hoot." It's certainly worth some experimenting, but I wouldn't bet the rent money on it.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Thanks all.The conseus seems to be to stick with lighter loads and concentrate on patterns.I'll do that.I was just wanting to see if I could get steel to work for ducks.I have a good combo with itx that drops ducks dead but steel is cheap and just wanted to try it.I may still try it out but #2's don't have baby pellets in a load so the patterns may be to thin to be effective.

:haha: you liked that hoot part didn't you :haha:

B.

What you have here is the conventional wisdom. Even in modern cartridge guns it's difficult to get steel up to an energy level that is really reliable on ducks. In the camber smokeless powder has a flame front that is supersonic. Even though it is an explosive, Black Powder's flame front in always subsonic. This seems to mean that in larger charges the payload has moved enough to makes the expansion of gases in the latter part of the burn less effective because it takes place in a larger volume between the breach and the payload. Or to put it another way, "you won't get more speed worth a hoot." It's certainly worth some experimenting, but I wouldn't bet the rent money on it.

 

[Zonie]

Just for giggles I ran some numbers for #2 (.150 diameter) shot thru my computers roundball ballistics program to see what increasing velocities would do.

Using various muzzle velocities I noted the pellets velocity and energy at 35 yards distance.

The answers assume the pellets to be lead rather than one of the non-lead kinds.

The numbers below are given with the initial velocity, the velocity at 35 yards and the energy in lbs/ft.

1000=719/5.8 (loss=281 fps) =28%
1150=794/7.1 (loss=356 fps) =31%
1200=811/7.4 (loss=389 fps) =32%
1300=840/8.0 (loss=460 fps) =35%
1400=864/8.4 (loss=536 fps) =38%

As you can see, although the final velocity at 35 yards increases as the muzzle velocity goes up, so do the losses and they do so at a increasing amount.

I think this is why many shotgun loads, both black powder and smokeless cartridge, are usually around the 1150 to 1200 fps area.
The increases above these velocities isn't worth the increase in powder and recoil.

Because the non-lead pellets are less dense I would expect them to loose a greater percentage of their velocity as the velocity increases.

(The 1400 fps velocity is pretty unrealistic in a shotgun shooting over 1 ounce of shot but I ran it to see what would happen. True to form, it lost the greatest percentage of velocity.)

 

[coloradoclyde]

You’re dead on Zonie. It reminds me of when I use to shoot tennis balls out of my cannon. If I increased powder to much, they would travel a shorter distance because they would flatten out like a pancake and lose all aerodynamic ability.
Every winter I play around with developing (cartridge) shotgun loads. I have noticed that reducing the amount of shot when increasing velocity can tighten groups. I have a ¾ oz load that is right deadly at 100 yards. On the flip side I’m currently playing with an ultra light BP load for short range rabbits, problem is that I can’t get the pattern to open up enough at 15- 20 yards it’s still the size of a paper plate.

 

[RayJ]

I like the chart .I will stick with standard loads.I always tend to want to push the envelope past what it should be.

 

[Lorne Johnson]

Thanks all.The conseus seems to be to stick with lighter loads and concentrate on patterns.I'll do that.I was just wanting to see if I could get steel to work for ducks.I have a good combo with itx that drops ducks dead but steel is cheap and just wanted to try it.I may still try it out but #2's don't have baby pellets in a load so the patterns may be to thin to be effective.

:haha: you liked that hoot part didn't you :haha:

B.

What you have here is the conventional wisdom. Even in modern cartridge guns it's difficult to get steel up to an energy level that is really reliable on ducks. In the camber smokeless powder has a flame front that is supersonic. Even though it is an explosive, Black Powder's flame front in always subsonic. This seems to mean that in larger charges the payload has moved enough to makes the expansion of gases in the latter part of the burn less effective because it takes place in a larger volume between the breach and the payload. Or to put it another way, "you won't get more speed worth a hoot." It's certainly worth some experimenting, but I wouldn't bet the rent money on it.

You Bet!