Maximum Range Flintlock

[azmntman]

Traditions Plainsman .50 flintlock 1-48 twist sq bottom rifling and shot from left door frame of Corrola LE. 65 grains 3f Goex, lubed with Hoppes blk pwdr patch lube.

 

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I can hit the 400 yard gong at my range with my .22 shooting subs. Subs are way more consistent velocity, and supers drop out of sonic fast and behave very badly in the transonic. I can hit it every time on a still day. In the wind my % goes down, but it's still high. That's with a 56mm turret scope. I can see the splash through the scope, but I can usually only hear it faintly if there's no one else shooting and I don't have to wear hearing protection (suppressor shooting subs is movie quiet). .22 ballistics are terrible at range. About .16 is about all you're going to get shooting the heaviest 45gr pill subsonic. My scope is almost wound out at 28.2 mils at that distance and 334" of drop. It's amazing how the wind pushes that bitty bullet around like it was a four-eyed-nerd.

By Contrast a .50 caliber round ball has a BC of .07 or less than half of a .22 at almost four times the weight!!! It drops out of super sonic at even shorter range despite its speed, but it's hardly affected by that. Moving at 1,700 fps at the muzzle ought to drop 450" at 400 yards. That is really bad... REALLY bad. You would have to get a specialty long range turret scope or a 50 mil prism to even get that much travel, not to mention how hard it would be to hold that over with typical irons...

A .68 ball is dropping 377" at 400 yards, making it behave more like a .22. If you want to shoot balls at "long distance" it's like drag racing. There is no replacement for displacement. Bigger is better, period.

Lyman's Black Powder Handbook lists all the ballistic coefficients of pure lead round balls.

This round ball solver is pretty nifty because most solvers don't do round balls and you have to enter everything in manually. It does not give you the BC for comparison though, that you have to look up in the book.

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/rbballistics/rbballistics.html
300 yards is a 13.5' drop, which would be a lot more doable. Unless you can raise the BC of that ball by making the bullet denser, I don't think fiddling with any aspect of the rifle is going to do anything. Round is just a terrible shape to cut through the air. You have to make the same size ball weigh more, or the range in The Year of Our Lord 1760 is going to be the same range today. Physics are constant. QED.

 

[nkbj]

The ballistic coefficient of round ball increases slowly with added diameter but it's still gonna be a really short round nose boat tail.

 

[reddogge]

Way back in the 80s we were shooting at a metal silhouette range with our flintlocks. I was shooting a metal pig target at 200 yards and hitting it pretty consistently although it didn't fall down, just rocked a bit. I was using 80 gr FFFG and .490 patched RB. It seemed I didn't have to aim a whole lot over the target either. I'd never take a shot at a deer at that range though. This is the rifle I built that I was using.

 

[Nav]

The round nose isn’t the biggest problem. Yes, it ploughs rather than cuts, but the back of the bullet is what creates the turbulence and even more drag. In a perfect world all bullets would look like this:

As you go larger the added weight gets retarded by more drag, so the gains are paltry. If you could stay the same size and get denser, that’s on only way to significantly increase BC, perhaps beyond a .22 With an even smaller ball than a .68+

@ 200 yards the hold over is a little under 6’, which doesn’t look like much 600’ away.

 

[ADK Bigfoot]

I have shot 3-4" groups at 100 yards, offhand, under perfect conditions. No wind, good light, flat ground, known distance. My hunting rifle is on at 25, a little high at 50, and back to on at 100 yards. 80 grains of FFFg Goex and a patched round ball. Past 125 yards, drop becomes a big factor, and wind can move a round ball more than one might think. I would not shoot at an un-wounded animal past 100 yards under any conditions.

I have shot deer-sized targets at 100 yards at the range under perfect conditions, with 100% "front third" hits. But doing the same in the woods with dappled sunlight or dawn/dusk conditions is a whole different story. Those tiny flintlock sights just don't give you the sight picture needed for exact shooting, and thick sights hide too much of the animal.

As stated above, understand and stay within the hunting limits of a flintlock; enjoy the game, and respect the animal.

ADK Bigfoot

 

[nkbj]

The volume (and therefore the weight) of a sphere increases more rapidly than the cross sectional area and that plays into improving the ballistic coefficient. A little bitty bit. In other words the bigger the ball the better its ballistic coefficient.
Many decades ago I sat down with a Lyman's Black Powder Handbook and compared the mid range trajectories of the various round ball calibers they listed way back when. The sweet spot appeared to be between .50 and .54 caliber guns with performance falling off above and below that range. I decided right then and there that what I needed was a .52 bore round ball rifle, something I still haven't tried.
Uh, but I do have a .515 ball mold...

 

[54ball]

That was in reference to a "wall gun" with a bore of approximately 1 inch.

Timothy Murphy's famous shot that killed British general Fraser during the Battle of Saratoga is thought to have been about 300 yards. Phenomenal at the time. As far as I know, the caliber of Tim's long rifle is unknown to this day.

Yes Sir, a smoothbore wall gun.
Also consider the "piece of paper". We think desk size, say modern 8"X10" roughly, but it could have been larger. Even poster board size at 600 yards is impressive. A rampart gun is really.... artillery.
The Murphy shot....
Personally, I believe that there is some truth to the story but at face value, it's full of holes.
First and foremost is the double rifle. A double rifle would be an absolutely horrible military arm.
Yes, I know that double fowling guns (double barrel shot guns) saw use in the 19th Century namely The Creek War of 1813-14, The Texas War (Travis is said to have had a double at the Alamo) and it's use by Confederate cavalry. These examples are rather specialized.

A double rifle for Morgan's Rev-War Riflemen, highly doubtful. A swivel breech, especially so. While technically possible I guess, (never say never) swivel breeches really are "Golden Age 1780s++" rifles.
Other accounts from Freeman's Farm mention a white or gray-haired man with a musket at much closer distance making the Frazier shot.

 

[olskool]

i used to bow hunt deer with a recurve, i got the question all the time from people who had no clue. the first thing they wanted to know was, how far can you shoot a deer? when i said i wanted them no more than 20 yds or so they lost interest,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

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I’ve shot deer underneath my stand (4 yards maybe?) ambush hunting. I call turkeys to a deac under 20 yards every year. There’s an atlatl season in Missouri, and people take trophy bucks with them. I’ve seen deer taken on the vidyas with a spear. My neighbor took at least one white tail with a sling and a big ol’ ball bearing. He could hit a beer can at about ten yards with a single circular motion. He threw at her head, knocked her out, and killed her with his knife (he was also a Navy Cross recipient and flew a Hell-Diver in The Pacific). Compared to a spear, sling, or an atlatl your recurve is the weapon of a spaceman. You do know that starvation was a primary cause of mortality among native Americans? They practically celebrated when they brought back a big animal to their lodge.

Stalking an elk is a different story. I’ve only gotten less than 20 yards away from 1st or 2nd year spikes and cows. Never gotten closer than about thirty five to a legal bull. The may act bold in town when their dander is up, but in those mountains I’ve found the big bulls are mighty skittish.

I’m 100% comfortable shooting an elk at 60 yards. My groups are about a pie plate at that distance. Matthews V3 set up for a 500 gr skinnies with an Iron Will double bevel.

I love competing with every weapon and thrown object there is (I‘m in a horseshoe league too!). I have a 3D tournament this weekend. I like hunting locally with primitive weapons, but If I’m going out of state and spending big money to hunt I‘m flinging certain death. Next year I may put in for some BP draws out of state. I just have to be jealous of those of you who can walk out your door and shoot an elk. Taking an elk (or game bird) with a recurve is mighty impressive. I know it can be done, but that’s the pinnacle of challenge and skill to me. You have to have a lot more free time than I have.

 

[cyten]

This rear sight should take you as far as possible

 

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Are there any period correct tang sights for around the 1750s?

 

[cyten]

Are there any period correct tang sights for around the 1750s?

That rifle I posted above is from the 1680's and the Ottoman Shishane rifles tended to have that style peep sight from then till they stopped making them in the 19th century. Or if you prefer even earlier...

 

[Nav]

That’s kind of what I figured. Not seen again till the 1870s, 1880s?