How much work to fit the new lock?
Maybe a Cheaper way out?
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Very minimal, if I can do it anyone can.
ronaldrothb49
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Not saying anything against the cheap kits as many will point they do have a place. I have seen some that the owner did some extra work on that have really turned out beautiful. I knew a guy years ago that started with a TC kit. He was having problems with the barrel shooting round balls so bought one of the drop in barrels. He got better groups but the lock wasn't reliable so bought a replacement lock. Next the trigger was replaced. Now he has a good working rifle but it just wasn't as pretty as the others with the curly maple so he bought a drop in stock. Now when you add it all up if he had just bought the replacement parts to begin with along with the hardware to go with it he would have come out cheaper to begin with. I see too many posts where people have bought one of the cheaper kits and right off the bat they want to know where they can get a better lock, a better trigger or a nicer stock. If your going to start replacing all that just save up a little more money and get a better kit. Or you can do like I did when I was starting out, get an idea of what you want and then buy it a piece at a time as you can afford it.
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I also have a really old kit by Cva that has the two piece stock in .45 I have started it and plan on using the same method but more tightly wrapped and a different color stain.
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Why an extra barrel, pray tell.
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Why get an extra barrel pray tell ?
Ummm...
Cuz he wants one smooth and one rifled??
Cuz he wants one smooth and one rifled??
hanshi
Cannon
WOW!! Nice work, that thing is beautiful.
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The other option is to get a used CVA or something similar. Gun show price on the last one I found was 250.00 . If you are going to modify it anyway why buy new. As long as the barrel is good you can get it done for 600.00
Did exactly this to a used 45 CVA Kentucky I picked up some years ago - pretty sure it has a US made barrel. The lock (percussion) was rubbish - an L&R RPL has not missed a beat. A lot of wood was removed and the Ramrod pipes opened up to take a 3/8" rod. That 'washer' in the middle of the fore-end was removed - used part of it to make a new nose-cap. Stained quite dark most people don't pick it as a CVA and it shoots like crazy! I have a number of 'Custom' Rifles but this little rifle is just plain fun to shoot. Don't regret the time and money I spent on it.
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I agree . Did away with the brass spacer and converted from percussion to flint. Did this for a girlfriend that wanted a flintlock.Sooner or later people are going to learn that you pay for convenience when ordering on line.
Please tell me more about doing away with the brass spacer.
Changed 2 cvas over the years. One a mt rifle from half stock to full stock and a siler flintlock. The other was a 2 piece stock so it was changed to a half stock with a siler flinter. Also turned the barrel from full octagon to half round half octagon. Made a real sweet utility rifle. One of the nicest guns I have ever built. One gun was USA made the other was Spanish and both shoot great. There is nothing wrong with the older cvas.
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Nice job on the faux tiger stripe! More details on your "wire and torch" mehod, please.
I too have thought about these mods to used CVA kentuckies:
Most of the early ones had really crappy sights, those need replacing right away. The angle or height of the comb of the stock could stand some lowering or tapering towards the front.
This is the biggie: Remove the brass spacer (or band, on really early CVAs) and splice the stock with Acraglass. You can hide this joint with careful tiger striping.. Remove A LOT of fore-end wood (perhaps 1/8" on sides on the front 2/3s of barrel channel) to shave that as thin as possible, including rounding a thin edge at the barrel channel; try to leave a bit of a raised "rib" for the ramrod trough while thinning the forestock by running a gouge down each side. Bore out the ramrod hole to next size up; and faux stripe it, stained really dark. If you could get rid of the "paint blob" side plate, that helps - perhaps by laminating a thin slice of wood there and replacing the plate with a simple Leman style kehole-shaped washer. Age all brass with black powder fowling.
If you are into the "Indian used gun" look, a few small brass tacks could be an embellishment. So could a rawhide "repair" wrap around that spliced forestock. If you dont have easy access to dead deer skin, consider buying a big rawhide dog chew bone, soak and unroll it to get about a square foot of beef rawhide. Tack that to a board and sand it to make it as thin as you prefer prior to stitching it on , hopefully with real sinew.
The over-all effect I'd aim for is to look like a well-loved, much-traded Leman trade rifle.
I've owned and handled several Lemans with those thin plank stocks and faux striped from stem to stern.
On several of them, the "striping" fades at points of handling wear, like where one's carrying hand wraps around the forestock. A very common look back then, apparently.
Back to the barrel channel, kit guns always have too much thickness. If they didnt, the would would simply warp like crazy in storage, or break too much in manufacture. Once assembled, on many old rifles it is just a thin shell. It does not support the barrel, the barrel supports the stock. Try to handle some fairly plain originals and you'll see what I mean.
I too have thought about these mods to used CVA kentuckies:
Most of the early ones had really crappy sights, those need replacing right away. The angle or height of the comb of the stock could stand some lowering or tapering towards the front.
This is the biggie: Remove the brass spacer (or band, on really early CVAs) and splice the stock with Acraglass. You can hide this joint with careful tiger striping.. Remove A LOT of fore-end wood (perhaps 1/8" on sides on the front 2/3s of barrel channel) to shave that as thin as possible, including rounding a thin edge at the barrel channel; try to leave a bit of a raised "rib" for the ramrod trough while thinning the forestock by running a gouge down each side. Bore out the ramrod hole to next size up; and faux stripe it, stained really dark. If you could get rid of the "paint blob" side plate, that helps - perhaps by laminating a thin slice of wood there and replacing the plate with a simple Leman style kehole-shaped washer. Age all brass with black powder fowling.
If you are into the "Indian used gun" look, a few small brass tacks could be an embellishment. So could a rawhide "repair" wrap around that spliced forestock. If you dont have easy access to dead deer skin, consider buying a big rawhide dog chew bone, soak and unroll it to get about a square foot of beef rawhide. Tack that to a board and sand it to make it as thin as you prefer prior to stitching it on , hopefully with real sinew.
The over-all effect I'd aim for is to look like a well-loved, much-traded Leman trade rifle.
I've owned and handled several Lemans with those thin plank stocks and faux striped from stem to stern.
On several of them, the "striping" fades at points of handling wear, like where one's carrying hand wraps around the forestock. A very common look back then, apparently.
Back to the barrel channel, kit guns always have too much thickness. If they didnt, the would would simply warp like crazy in storage, or break too much in manufacture. Once assembled, on many old rifles it is just a thin shell. It does not support the barrel, the barrel supports the stock. Try to handle some fairly plain originals and you'll see what I mean.
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There are 2 long pins that connect the 2 PC stocks. The brass PC is screwed on with clearance holes for the pin. Used Accru Glass epoxy that comes with die pacs so you can get it close to the color you want it to be. Glued it up with that. I believe I had to re drill the pin holes or at least the ones in the front PC of the stock. I don't think I put the nose PC on. Sand it and stain to match the die in the epoxy.
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I have a CVA Mountain Rifle stock and some parts. I kinda jumped the gun on buying a cap lock from L&R. Now I am thinking flintlock. Probably put a 36 inch 58 cal on it. The stock is a one inch channel. Change out the butt plate. I know when its done it will still be a CVA in most eyes. But not in mine.
I agree with 54Ball, why try to make a silk purse from a sow's ear. I have two CVA guns, a plains pistol and a mountain rifle both built from kits. Good guns, don't get me wrong, but they are what they are and not much you can do to get them better without spending a lot. Do something like Reds did. Give it your best effort on the build and tune the lock or have it tuned. Minimum expense, maximum attention and it might look like a silk purse.
54ball
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Speaking specifically of the Jukar/CVA/Traditions “Kentucky”.
I have made it clear in other postings throughout the years that I like these rifles. There’s an old Southern saying.......
“You dance with the one what brought you.”
In other words you give credit where credit is due. Many; probably most of us, have had some kind interaction with this firearm usually early on in our journey.
It’s an iconic firearm. It’s been made for 1/2 a Century and is still going strong. 40 years ago, who would have thought that the TC Hawken and Renegade would be in the dust bin of history while the old Jukar just keeps going and going!
It’s not a sow’s ear. It’s one of the best factory Muzzleloader’s of all time. After 5 decades it has earned that consideration.
I have a soft spot for them and I always will.
I don’t know about 1776 other than history from a book. What I do know is 1976 and I would give.........a whole heck of a lot just to spend a few hours there in 1976.
There’s people I would love to see.
So....
It is what it is and what it is ain’t bad.
With that said the rifle has some flaws that cannot be corrected architecturally.
It’s too big in the forestock and too small in the buttstock.
There is nothing you can do to correct this other than using the parts and building from a blank.
It is what it is
I have made it clear in other postings throughout the years that I like these rifles. There’s an old Southern saying.......
“You dance with the one what brought you.”
In other words you give credit where credit is due. Many; probably most of us, have had some kind interaction with this firearm usually early on in our journey.
It’s an iconic firearm. It’s been made for 1/2 a Century and is still going strong. 40 years ago, who would have thought that the TC Hawken and Renegade would be in the dust bin of history while the old Jukar just keeps going and going!
It’s not a sow’s ear. It’s one of the best factory Muzzleloader’s of all time. After 5 decades it has earned that consideration.
I have a soft spot for them and I always will.
I don’t know about 1776 other than history from a book. What I do know is 1976 and I would give.........a whole heck of a lot just to spend a few hours there in 1976.
There’s people I would love to see.
So....
It is what it is and what it is ain’t bad.
With that said the rifle has some flaws that cannot be corrected architecturally.
It’s too big in the forestock and too small in the buttstock.
There is nothing you can do to correct this other than using the parts and building from a blank.
It is what it is
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