misfire with percussion??

[happyhunter]

I am new to percussion rifles and figured I need help with this one. I took my "new to me" TC Renegade to the range yesterday, and the first shot did not fire for 3 caps. I thought about it and guessed maybe the hole where the spark hits the main charge may be plugged with bore butter from when I swabbed it down the bore. I pulled the nipple and put a bit of FFFF in there and put the nipple back on. It then fired with the next cap.

So, what happened? Can bore butter clog that hole? If so how do I keep that from happening again? Is it safe to put some FFFF under the nipple? If it is safe I may do that when I take it out hunting just to ensure no misfires, is that a good idea??

Thanks!!

 

[Tumblernotch]

You shouldn't have to put any ffffg in. Most likely you did push some lube into the flash channel. This can also happen when you wipe after a shot. Moisture from a patch mixed with powder residue can also get pushed down there.

Before you load, push a lightly dampened patch down the bore. (A dry patch may get hung). First, put the hammer at half cock the push the patch down and listen for air escaping from the nipple. This is a good sign of a clear channel. Also, many of us snap a cap on an empty gun to see if it's clear. Place a cap on the nipple and aim the muzzle a few inches away from a leaf on the ground. Pull the trigger and see if the gas from the cap moves or punches a hole in the leaf. You can also hear it leaving the muzzle. Be sure the gun is unloaded when you do this or you will be surprised, not to mention be stung by dirt and rock fragments and a possible richochet. Always keep the muzzle pointed downrange.
:thumbsup:

 

[Randy Tuftee]

Hi I to shoot a renegade for over 25 years, great gun, it's a 50 cal I use 2f goex prb
I think you found your problem , I use the pre-lubed wonder lube patches with good results they come in differant thickness and cal. to fit your needs. clogged nipples are part of shooting bp
I clean with very hot soap and water then let dry swab bore dry then coat bore with light oily patch
Powder under the nipple ,I've done it? Make sure you wait a long time after you have fired a cap to remove the nipple.

 

[rabjr]

I am new to percussion rifles and figured I need help with this one. I took my "new to me" TC Renegade to the range yesterday, and the first shot did not fire for 3 caps. I thought about it and guessed maybe the hole where the spark hits the main charge may be plugged with bore butter from when I swabbed it down the bore. I pulled the nipple and put a bit of FFFF in there and put the nipple back on. It then fired with the next cap.

So, what happened? Can bore butter clog that hole? If so how do I keep that from happening again? Is it safe to put some FFFF under the nipple? If it is safe I may do that when I take it out hunting just to ensure no misfires, is that a good idea??

Thanks!!

Get yourself some pipe cleaners, their a percussion guns best friend. After cleaning your gun, take the nipple off and use one to clear the channel.

 

[ohio ramrod]

Over the years I have developed a ritual for my cap guns. After shooting I clean them thoughly, then run a lightly oiled patch down and out. Then I put a large dry patch down and leave it in the breech. Then I heavily oil the barrel. And store the guns with the muzzles below the breech.The dry patch soaks up any excess oil and prevents it from cloging the flash channel. Then when I am ready to shoot I pull the patch from the breech and use an alcohol soaked patch (or sometimes several ) to clean off the oil. Then I set off a cap with a patch "stuck" over the barrel just to make sure the alcohol patches did not wash any oil into the flash channel and every thing is clear.If the stuck patch doesn't blow off the barrel I know the channel is pluged. If it blows off I know the gun is ready to load. Time consuming -yes! But I know the barrels are protected while stored and ready to fire when loaded.

 

[cowpoke1955]

Stop using Bore Butter in your bore. I use it only for a conical lube. I've been using soap and water to clean and then lightly oil afterwards. Been working great for over 30 years with no problems. Run an alchol patch and pop a cap before loading. Hang in there. You have a good rifle :thumbsup:

 

[Tumblernotch]

Stop using Bore Butter in your bore. I use it only for a conical lube. I've been using soap and water to clean and then lightly oil afterwards. Been working great for over 30 years with no problems. Run an alchol patch and pop a cap before loading. Hang in there. You have a good rifle :thumbsup:

I should have added that to my post. Using gooey stuff is only asking for trouble. I tried bore butter as a patch lube and was not impressed, though some may like it. I would never grease the bore when storing. I lightly oil and before shooting run a dry patch down to remove any excess lying in the grooves or on the breechplug. No matter how lightly you oil a little can run to the lowest point and settle. And if you stand the gun when storing, that means the breech area. When I go to the range or hunting, I want to start shooting, not spend a half hour de-greasing. Now, if I was storing a gun for a very long time in a damp climate or burying it to hide it from the feds I might grease 'er up real good! :grin:

 

[William O.]

Excessive amounts of Bore Butter will clog the nipple, use it sparingly. Get yourself a nipple pick too, for cleaning in between shots and at the end of the day to prevent problems.

 

[happyhunter]

Very interesting.. Thanks for the info. What oil would you recommend. I am thinking WD40 to displace any water after cleaning.

Usually I clean with soap and hot water. Then stand the barrel muzzle down overnight to let the water drain out. The next day I am guessing would be the time to run a patch of WD40 down the bore. Mainly just to get the moisture out.

Ya know, on my centerfire stuff I do not put anything down the bore. Jus the left over solvent that does not wipe out. Do I really need to put anything down the bore??

Thanks!!!

 

[crockett]

One other problem you might run into is a misfire on a follow up shot. Imagine the bore with fouling. If you swab, but only do it once, you are pushing a lot of that fouling down the bore and could plug up the hole. You may get a delayed shot or complete misfire. In any event, if you snap a cap as described- you will insure there is an open path.
The very small charge in the drum- by removing the nipple- that often will work- just wait about 3-5 minutes after the misfire to make sure all embers are out. Keep the muzzle downrange at all times!!!!

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Stop using Bore Butter in your bore. I use it only for a conical lube. I've been using soap and water to clean and then lightly oil afterwards. Been working great for over 30 years with no problems. Run an alchol patch and pop a cap before loading. Hang in there. You have a good rifle :thumbsup:

I should have added that to my post. Using gooey stuff is only asking for trouble. I tried bore butter as a patch lube and was not impressed, though some may like it. I would never grease the bore when storing. I lightly oil and before shooting run a dry patch down to remove any excess lying in the grooves or on the breechplug. No matter how lightly you oil a little can run to the lowest point and settle. And if you stand the gun when storing, that means the breech area. When I go to the range or hunting, I want to start shooting, not spend a half hour de-greasing. Now, if I was storing a gun for a very long time in a damp climate or burying it to hide it from the feds I might grease 'er up real good! :grin:

I completely agree with both of these Gentlemen! A very short story: At a big Boy Scout Camporee I was in charge of the Range. My job was to "demonstrate" black powder rifles to over 200+ Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts. Each of the boys got to try their hand at loading & firing one of the three rifles I had at the Range. A .45 cal loaned to me was so jammed-up with bore butter that I had to remove the nipple and run water down the bore to remove the "gunk", then completely dry the thing, thoroughly clean the nipple and snap a half dozen caps to dry-out the flash channel BEFORE I could load it again. The owner (another Scout Dad) thought that he was doing me a favor by lubing the bore with the bore butter...my first patch down the muzzle made bore butter come out of the nipple! I knew that I was in for a major cleaning job before I could get the thing to be as reliable as my two .50 cal Trade Rifles!

As far as what to do after cleaning: I soak my bore with Birchwood Casey Barricade. That's one of the ones that undergoes a salt water test by exposing various metals to salt water spraying! I mean that I really SOAK it: I squirt the Barricade down the bore (with the nipple screwed on, in place) and then thoroughly wet two patches with the stuff, and using a range rod with a worm on the end, I push the two wet patches down the muzzle with the nipple pointed into a deep sink (in the laundry room) and watch the excess Barricade come squirting out the nipple as I pump the spray into the deep sink :shocked2: . That gets EVERYTHING wet with the stuff! I store the rifle muzzle-down on a paper towel, and the bore keeps what it needs and the rest winds-up on the paper toweling.

At the Range or woods one dry patch down the muzzle (on my wormed range rod) and two #11 CCI Magnum caps and I'm ready for a full day of uninterrupted fun Not a single miss-fire :grin: .

So HOW you store the rifle AFTER you clean it makes ALL the difference IMHO :wink:

Good luck with your endeavors, and make lots of SMOKE!! :thumbsup:

Dave

 

[William O.]

WD-40 is not a good lube IMO and should be used only to remove (displace) water from the bore. It will also combine with powder residue to make things worse. Bore butter makes a decent patch lube, although there are better things, but it does not protect the bore from rust. After cleaning via hot water or one of the bore cleaner/solvents (basically soapy water packaged in a bottle) you need to dry everything and then run a lightly oiled patch down. I start with several clean patches with a few drops of barrel blaster/solvent on them, then some patchs with JB's bore cleaning compound (available from Midway), followed by dry patches until they come out clean. Do yourself a favor and get a range rod and bore guide. The factory wooden rod will break eventually, and usually at the worst moment. Your range rod should be a few inches longer than the one it came with so you'll have more to grip while cleaning. You can also pull the nipple and clean it, using a pipe cleaner wrapped around the threads to get the crud off, then soak it in your favorite cleaner using a 35 mm film canister. If your rifle has a cleanout screw, you can do the same to it. Put a drop of oil on the threads when done and reinstall. As for oil, I use either Remington oil or AMSOIL MP spray, but very sparingly, and only after cleaning.

 

[nw_hunter]

I tried bore butter as a patch lube and was not impressed, though some may like it. I would never grease the bore when storing. I lightly oil and before shooting run a dry patch down to remove any excess lying in the grooves or on the breechplug. No matter how lightly you oil a little can run to the lowest point and settle. And if you stand the gun when storing, that means the breech area. When I go to the range or hunting, I want to start shooting, not spend a half hour de-greasing. Now, if I was storing a gun for a very long time in a damp climate or burying it to hide it from the feds I might grease 'er up real good! :grin:
[/quote]

I completely agree with both of these Gentlemen! A very short story: At a big Boy Scout Camporee I was in charge of the Range. My job was to "demonstrate" black powder rifles to over 200+ Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts. Each of the boys got to try their hand at loading & firing one of the three rifles I had at the Range. A .45 cal loaned to me was so jammed-up with bore butter that I had to remove the nipple and run water down the bore to remove the "gunk", then completely dry the thing, thoroughly clean the nipple and snap a half dozen caps to dry-out the flash channel BEFORE I could load it again. The owner (another Scout Dad) thought that he was doing me a favor by lubing the bore with the bore butter...my first patch down the muzzle made bore butter come out of the nipple! I knew that I was in for a major cleaning job before I could get the thing to be as reliable as my two .50 cal Trade Rifles!

As far as what to do after cleaning: I soak my bore with Birchwood Casey Barricade. That's one of the ones that undergoes a salt water test by exposing various metals to salt water spraying! I mean that I really SOAK it: I squirt the Barricade down the bore (with the nipple screwed on, in place) and then thoroughly wet two patches with the stuff, and using a range rod with a worm on the end, I push the two wet patches down the muzzle with the nipple pointed into a deep sink (in the laundry room) and watch the excess Barricade come squirting out the nipple as I pump the spray into the deep sink :shocked2: . That gets EVERYTHING wet with the stuff! I store the rifle muzzle-down on a paper towel, and the bore keeps what it needs and the rest winds-up on the paper toweling.

At the Range or woods one dry patch down the muzzle (on my wormed range rod) and two #11 CCI Magnum caps and I'm ready for a full day of uninterrupted fun Not a single miss-fire :grin: .

So HOW you store the rifle AFTER you clean it makes ALL the difference IMHO :wink:

Good luck with your endeavors, and make lots of SMOKE!! :thumbsup:

Dave [/quote]


I agree Dave! How you store it makes a BIG difference.

Last month I did my own salt water test with various lubes. WD-40 failed miserably. Total rust after about a week.Hoppe's gun oil did bad and bore butter didn't do well either.The winner in my test was Olive Oil. Just took a peek at the nails, and the olive oil nail is still rust free.

I use it as a patch lube, and gun lube after cleaning. (It's cheap too) :wink:

 

[catman]

I'm liking the Olive oil myself more & more..

 

[cowpoke1955]

Letting a wet barrel set over night could allow rust to start. After cleaning your barrel run some dry patches down the bore. I spray some WD-40 into the bore followed by a couple more dry patches. This will get rid of any moisture in the barrel and breech. Lightly oil and you're done. It sounds like a lot, but only takes a minute. Been doing it for over 30 years :thumbsup:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

:thumbsup: Wait til I tell all my Italian friends, I'll have more than I ever need :haha:

Dave

 

[happyhunter]

So, WD40 will get rid of the water. Will that protect the bore until next use or should I put another oil down the bore? I have used WD40 for finish protecting on blue guns with good success. Of course I use a good oil for lubing.

I have had good success with WD40 to protect from rust (or maybe I'm just lucky). Is there something better for rust protection?

 

[widget350]

Get yourself some pipe cleaners, their a percussion guns best friend. After cleaning your gun, take the nipple off and use one to clear the channel.

I second that. Just make sure you get real pipe cleaners (from a tobacco shop), not the crappy ones from your kid's craft kit - they just make a mess. I use a little Hoppe's #9 on one of these and then pop a cap, and I'm set to go. If you use anything like Hoppe's to clean your gun...remember...Hoppe's is flamable, powder is flamable, but the mixture is goo.

 

[William O.]

So, WD40 will get rid of the water. Will that protect the bore until next use or should I put another oil down the bore? I have used WD40 for finish protecting on blue guns with good success. Of course I use a good oil for lubing.

I have had good success with WD40 to protect from rust (or maybe I'm just lucky). Is there something better for rust protection?

IMO/IME just about everything is better at preventing rust than WD-40. After the solvent evaporates it sets up and electrostatic charge that attracts dust as well, making things gummy and worse than before cleaning. Equally as bad is using too much of any type of oil/rust preventative, which will contaminate powder and clog things up the next trip to the range. Remington oil is good and available most anywhere, and while there are some better products out there the extra protection really isn't needed unless the conditions where you live dictate it. My first choice is AMSOIL MP spray, but it may not be readily available to others.

As for cleaning the bore, I cannot say enough about JB bore cleaning compound. Just a little bit on a clean patch removes a ton of powder fouling.

 

[LeMat1856]

.
. oct 14 / 2:45pm


hi,

the correct answer is: ...it depends.

it depends largely on how long it will be until your next live-fire exercise.. this means the lube could be a light coating of birchwood gun oil (synthetic) to full-on grease.

see this discussion on this very same topic that went on some months ago:
Oiling After Cleaning - which is best ?

rust is nasty stuff and you should do anything necessary to *prevent* (remember: an ounce of prevention is ....) it from even starting.

~d~