Most authentic Hawkens replica

[AeroncaTAL]

My only experience is with the Lyman, but the wood on the stock is proud enough, there's enough for you to form in any details that appeal to you from pictures of the originals. You can also pick your metal finish. I hacked and rasped enough wood off my Lyman kit that not only does it look significantly different than a stock GPR, it also balances better for my taste

Brownbear, that is what I did with my GPR "Old Friend" (Lyman in Gray). I liked the basic look of the Lyman, but thought that the stock was a bit too much. Looked at various pics of original and replica Hawkens, choose what I wanted and went for it. The Lyman stock does provide enough wood so it is a blank canvas to create with. My GPR isn't a true Hawken, but is close enough to suit my tastes.
I'd certainly build another one.
Scott

 

[PreglerD]

Looks realy nearly the same, except some small details. so why is Ped so much more expensive than Investarm?

 

[faw3]

thought death bed statements were like gospel so I believed them!

Is that in refrence to my dieing of MS and another problem the next 6 months? Fred :hatsoff:

 

[Runner]

The wrist appears longer than it is because of the chopped thumb notch. It is not really straight anywhere. The hand/palm/thumb area on the trigger side of the stock is relieved enough that the wrist seems to continue into the buttstock. Those are the good points for handling and shooting. Both can be done on the GPR kit.
The original type guards look correct, but they are not as nice for carry or shooting as half a dozen other types available. The Pedersoli gun misses badly in the wrist area and is much closer to a leman style than a Hawken style. On a plus note, the leman guns handle better anyway and are nicer looking to some eyes. If you scroll up or go to Don's site, notice where the triggers are in respect to the lock and the wrist. Most of today's factory guns don't have them in the right place. They are too far forward. The only people I know that went to single sets is so that it looks farther back than the double set did. Again, scroll up.
The GPR is the obvious choice for a shooter/hunter gun, and you can add as many of the Hawken details as you have wood and patience for. The Hawken styling with 15/16th straight barrel handles and shoots quite well. Unless you are looking for an 11 pound detail correct replica, the GPR is definately the starting place today. I am no expert on Hawkens, but there are some obvious things that can easily be fixed in the factory kit guns.

 

[windwalker_au]

Kirrmeister when you shoot a pedersoli you feel the diference it the triggers its balence wood to meatle fit and very good cut rifeling in the barrel plus the
pedersoli hawkin and the tryon plains rifle ar 1 inch across the flats, lyman are 15/16 inch across the flats.leaf spings in the locks. just better al round qualaty.the lyman is a very good gun for the money .
go back thrugh the post and you can see my tryon plains rifle you can see the qualy.
bernie :grin:

 

[almrl]

Runner,

The Plains Rifle by Charles Hanson, Jr. has a picture of three "Hawkens." Plate 10 on page 28.

The center rifle is very similar in appearance to the GPR.

Old Coot

 

[captaincaveman]

on the original the trigger is a little farther back, and the angle of the comb to the wrist is a bit steeper, but they are damn close

Josh

 

[BrownBear]

I gotta say that if the trigger was any further back than on the GPR, I'd hate it. Admittedly I've got wide hands, but as it is I'm tempted to shorten the combs on all mine because it interferes so much with my thumb. The set trigger is almost an afterthought, because I can't begin to reach it with my trigger finger without shifting my whole hand. Still admire the originals, but in my mind wood was made for rasping.

 

Used Sharon hawken rifles are dandy's when you can find one for sale.

 

[Enfield1]

On page 46 of R.L. Wilson's "The Peacemakers, Arms and Adventure in the American West", there is a color photograph of a rifle manufactured by Jake and Samuel Hawkin for Kit Carson. On page 48 of this book is a photo of the Hawken rifle used by Jim Bridger and sold for $65.00 at Fort C.F. Smith in 1865. Each of these rifles appears to be almost a carbon copy of the Lyman GPR that is purchased today. I surely get a lot of enjoyment out of mine. Keep the smoke rolling!

 

[BrownBear]

I'd love to get a closer look at several originals, in order to compare one detail on the Lyman's. I wasn't aware of it till I built one. The Lyman's cheek piece is way thick, little different than on the raw stock that arrives in the kit. Almost like they simply rounded the corners of a kit and called it factory.

Now that I've built one and took the time to thin the cheek piece while watching sight alignment, the factory version seems like a sincere club. It also has cut apparent recoil a lot to get all that extra wood out from under your chin.

All that's for my holding and shooting style, and if the originals are more along the lines of the Lyman, it would indicate to me that the old timers most certainly were nesting their buttstock out on the arm rather than on their shoulder.

It's all a frat in a whirlwind till you have tried the same model in both versions, but enough different that I'm going to go back and whack the cheek pieces on my other GPRs.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Actually, the Lyman is an attempt to copy the Hawken. And if you lay a GPR next to a real Hawken or a good copy of one, the differences are many. The true Hawken is a rifle of great subtlety and elegance. The Lyman is more like a caricature of a Hawken--you know what it is supposed to be, but it isn't. Close but no cigar. IMHO.

 

[almrl]

OK, What's a "Hawken?"

There are Hawkens with iron furniture.
There are Hawkens with brass furniture.

There are full-stock Hawkens.
There are half-stock Hawkens.

There are flint Hawkens.
There are percussion Hawkens.

There are Hawkens with patch boxes.
There are Hawkens without patch boxes.

There are heavy Hawkens.
There are light Hawkens. (see the top rifle in my earlier post.)

There are Hawkens that were Eastern Kentucky rifles that were shortened, bored out, and rifled to larger caliber, and stamped Hawken on the barrel.

7734, in a newspaper interview shortly before his death, Sam Hawken stated that he had made a "Super Rifle" for General William H. Ashley, with a 42" barrel and firing an ounce ball (about .68 cal).

:hmm: "Verrry Interesting" :hmm:

Old Coot

 

[BrownBear]

Yup, and therin lies the fun. Lots of elbowroom to do what you want.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

But the title of this thread is "Most authentic Hawken replica". And the most authentic replica is certainly not made in Italy and it certainly is not a GPR. No slur is implied regarding the value for money or function of any so-called "Hawken" replica--just mentioning that these guns don't look much like any true Hawken. Check Don Stith's web-site or The Hawken Shop site for some idea of the things that make a Hawken a Hawken. Track's archive also has some good photographs of Hawken replicas.

 

[brubincam]

how about hawkin style rifles in 58 cal.???

 

[Runner]

I have handled Hawkens built off the blueprints. The last one I had in my hands was eleven and a half pounds. It hung on target pretty nice, but I don't want to carry that much gun all the time. My Mountian rifle is downright delicate in comparison. The plains Hawkens were designed to be able to handle brutal powder loads if they were needed. They were built in useful long range roundball calibers. The gun was built to beat your enemy over the head with if it was empty. Today's repro's are cool, but there is a big difference. I don't know very much about the "Missouri" or "St Louis" guns that are mentioned in the books tho. How different were the lighter guns made for the local trade?
By the way, the top gun in the above picture seems to be wearing an almost exact copy of my CVA Hawken trigger guard! Go figure!

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

how about hawkin style rifles in 58 cal.???

What about them?

 

[RedFeather]

I think it's kind of funny how so many people impart a lot of "subtlety" to Plains rifles. To my mind, they are more or less the heavy-duty utility guns of the era. One thing I've always thought is that an authentic Hawken is a bit of a disadvantage for someone looking for a hunting rifle. I don't think mountain men carried them around in the crook of their arms all day long. Weren't most packed on horseback? No flame intended, but they don't seem to have been made for walking. In that respect, some of the "replicas" are a bit more accomodating.

I agree with Sam Fadala's explanation that modern rifles like the T/C Hawken aren't really replicas, just modern guns in the style of, so to speak.

Guess I'll mosey on down to the shelter now. :grin:

 

[Herb]

I just started building a .58 Hawken. It has a new 1" X 36" Green River Rifle Works barrel, and will be flintlock and fullstock. I'll build it to Track's full stock Hawken plans. I've built five Bridger Hawkens so far, so I know about the little subtle things that make them look right. And I can ask my friend Neill Fields for advice if need be. He has built more than 50 Hawkens, many at the old Green River Rifle Works.

Well, this may not be an "authentic Hawken replica", since apparently nobody can claim seeing an original full stock flintlock Hawken. But it will be mine. And, oh yes, I just ordered the Carson Hawken kit from Track, the one in their Garage Sale with the hard knot in the stock, .50 caliber percussion, so will build that at the same time. And, oh yeah, got another 1" x 36" .54 Green River Rifle Works barrel and parts including shaped and inletted stock in trade (along with the .58 parts) towards a .40 caliber Issac Haines flintlock I built and that a friend rich in rifle parts wanted.

The Green River Rifle Works rifles were not called "replicas", they were called copies. They had Jim Bridger's rifle down from Montana, and I was able to handle that in a class I took there.